tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post5338696427808057549..comments2024-03-06T19:21:15.708-05:00Comments on RealChoice: What real care for life-threatening pregnancy complications looks likeChristina Duniganhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-41448696422600515162010-11-22T08:30:47.609-05:002010-11-22T08:30:47.609-05:00Wait, so you turned down transfusions?Wait, so you turned down transfusions?Nulonohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00696072610155482618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-72460847994519209662010-11-04T20:17:46.200-04:002010-11-04T20:17:46.200-04:00What about your first child turning out disabled m...What about your first child turning out disabled made you not be pro-life? Do you love your child less because (s)he is not perfect? Do you wish death upon this child and all similarly "defective" people?Nulonohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00696072610155482618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-8486110641501455972010-11-04T18:20:50.060-04:002010-11-04T18:20:50.060-04:00BTW, Deb, are you saying that when you started hem...BTW, Deb, are you saying that when you started hemorrhaging, your doctor sent you home and told you to make arrangements to travel out of state to spend three days bleeding in a motel room?Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-65912587093050640172010-11-04T18:16:25.366-04:002010-11-04T18:16:25.366-04:00First of all, Deb, nobody is saying it's "...First of all, Deb, nobody is saying it's "no big deal." <br /><br />What we're saying is that if the woman's life is in danger, no responsible doctor is going to send her traveling out of state with a friend or family member to spend three days in a motel room, cared for by her companion. He'll deal with the situation in an adequately equipped hospital. And I still can't see why you need to stop and vacuum the baby's brain out if you already have the shoulders -- the widest part -- delivered.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-40461881789284627522010-05-14T07:20:20.288-04:002010-05-14T07:20:20.288-04:00That's a candidate for stupidest thing I'v...<i>That's a candidate for stupidest thing I've ever read on the internet.</i><br />I was just doing a little Proverbs 26:5 on you. :-)<br /><br />The point is, that most women who want abortions will get them before a pregnancy becomes high-risk; and those who become high-risk in the middle of pregnancy want their babies, so wouldn't kill their babies then anyway. Talk about "Doioioioiioi!"Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118292622669944944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-22910604237637663472010-05-14T06:20:43.479-04:002010-05-14T06:20:43.479-04:001: What would be wrong with that? You're appar...1: What would be wrong with that? You're apparently fine with omnicide that takes place within one's body, so why not 1 murder?<br />2: If it's about the "right to choose", a "life of the mother" exception is irrelevant.Nulonohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00696072610155482618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-67577479833488543722010-05-14T01:14:53.096-04:002010-05-14T01:14:53.096-04:00Nuolo: re: "OC, if I drugged, shrunk, and swa...Nuolo: re: "OC, if I drugged, shrunk, and swallowed you whole, would that be okay? "<br /><br />No.<br /><br />Kathy, you wrote: "say that abortions should be done as a preventive measure would require a 100% abortion rate, since it is possible (though not likely) for normal pregnancies to suddenly become high-risk for one reason or another."<br /><br />That's a candidate for stupidest thing I've ever read on the internet. Abortion should be done as a preventative measure IF the pregnancy is high risk AND the patient wants the abortion. Otherwise, no. Doioioioiioi!OperationCounterstrikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11877707857942926743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-45026337629324791162010-05-13T13:16:33.426-04:002010-05-13T13:16:33.426-04:00If we're talking about abortions to save the m...If we're talking about abortions to save the mother's life, we're talking about mothers who want their babies.<br /><br />OC, if I drugged, shrunk, and swallowed you whole, would that be okay? After all, you'd be alive until you were slowly and painfully digested by stomach acid, at which point you would be inside my body.Nulonohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00696072610155482618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-65184371092517435092010-05-13T10:01:44.170-04:002010-05-13T10:01:44.170-04:00OC, it is your ignorance which is appalling and la...OC, it is your ignorance which is appalling and laughable. Most C-sections are not life-saving, for either mother or baby -- the huge increase in C-sections is more due to doctor impatience and/or defensive medicine. <br /><br />Certainly, there are some women for whom pregnancy is a life-threatening condition; but to say that abortions should be done as a preventive measure would require a 100% abortion rate, since it is possible (though not likely) for normal pregnancies to suddenly become high-risk for one reason or another. Most women who are pregnant actually want their babies to live, so would not choose abortion even if they understand that the risk to themselves is greater if they continue the pregnancy; women who don't care if their babies live or die or who want their babies not to live to be born can choose abortions for several months prior to viability.Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118292622669944944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-34124996675242942052010-05-13T07:37:46.255-04:002010-05-13T07:37:46.255-04:00So, OC, basically you're saying, "Fuck an...So, OC, basically you're saying, "Fuck antibiotics and blood banks and modern surgical techniques and all that. Bring back the CRANIOCLAST! Nothing says High Quality Twenty First Century Medical Care quite like crushing the skull of a viable infant!"<br /><br />You're calling for a return to pre-antibiotics days, pre blood-bank days, to a day when you just crushed the baby's skull. <br /><br />If you like crunching noises so much, just eat some goddam potato chips, okay? You don't need to kill viable infants just to get that satisfying crunch.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-53436576057966104462010-05-13T01:05:46.371-04:002010-05-13T01:05:46.371-04:00Granny Grump, in some late-term abortions you suck...Granny Grump, in some late-term abortions you suck out the contents of the skull and make it smaller, after you have induced fetal demise with the intracardiac injection. Don't you remember all the fuss about "partial-birth" abortions??? It was your side that published diagrams of this.<br /><br />In any case, the skull continues getting bigger right up to delivery (and afterwards). Even a late term abortion spares you a little cervix-stretching, even if you DONT decompress the skull. The skull of a 9-month fetus is significantly larger than that of an 8-month fetus. Not a huge amount larger--a small but significant amount.<br /><br />You said "in the middle of life-threatening problems" again. I'll say this one more time: you do the abortion as a PREVENTATIVE, you do it BEFORE the pregnancy becomes an immediate danger. A "dangerous" pregnancy only means it WOULD be dangerous if you delivered it full-term; it does not mean the pregnancy is dangerous YET. The idea is to abort it BEFORE it threatens the mother's life. So that she doesn't HAVE to go to the hospital.<br /><br />You ask why we don't deliver babies in hotel rooms? Because delivering a live baby UNLIKE abortion, is very dangerous and in one out of four or five cases requires immediate major surgery. Abortions, unlike childbirth, are safe enough for hotel rooms.<br /><br />I have to say I'm starting to wonder if you may just be too stupid to understand something as complicated as gynecology. I have explained why late-term abortion is better than hi-risk delivery several times in several different ways and you keep repeating the same questions. Maybe you should stick to less rigorous, easier-to-understand subjects.OperationCounterstrikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11877707857942926743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-75426572343384045532010-05-13T00:55:40.417-04:002010-05-13T00:55:40.417-04:00Marycatelli, the reason you cannot reclaim a kidne...Marycatelli, the reason you cannot reclaim a kidney once you have donated it is, after you have donated it, it's not in your body any more.<br /><br />What is inside your body belongs to you and only to you. Not to your government and not to your fetus.OperationCounterstrikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11877707857942926743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-25948958179404589742010-05-12T22:44:20.255-04:002010-05-12T22:44:20.255-04:00your house is different from your body
Nice try, ...<i>your house is different from your body</i><br /><br />Nice try, again. Note the bait and switch -- you tried to claim it was the yourness that was the trick.<br /><br /><i>But we NEVER force them to share what is inside the body.</i><br /><br />Flat out lie. You can not reclaim your kidney once you have donated it. You can chose not to share in the first place, but once you have done so -- by, for instance, conceiving a child -- you must go on sharing if it requires slicing up someone else's body to stop.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-80875663606953248662010-05-12T18:28:40.957-04:002010-05-12T18:28:40.957-04:00OC, most late abortions aren't about collapsin...OC, most late abortions aren't about collapsing the fetal skull. They kill the baby by stabbing it in the heart. The baby is the same size, just dead. How, exactly, does this improve the mother's chance of surviving the life threatening health crisis?<br /><br />How does a woman whose life is in such danger that the pregnancy must be terminated have her safety improved by avoiding a hospital?<br /><br />You're not explaining any of this. You're making excuses, like "a motel is cheaper." Then why don't we deliver all babies in motels? Why only the dead babies of women in the middle of life-threatening health problems?Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-53172445087700218232010-05-12T08:51:11.962-04:002010-05-12T08:51:11.962-04:00OC, you're wrong. According to ACOG's Gree...OC, you're wrong. According to <a href="http://www.acog.org/from_home/publications/green_journal/2004/v103n4p729.pdf" rel="nofollow">ACOG's Green Journal</a> there is a 38% increased risk of death for every additional week of gestation. At 17 weeks, it's 2.4/100,000 and at 18 weeks it's 3.3/100,000. Therefore, by 30 weeks, the risk of death is over 80/100,000 while maternal mortality for all causes (supposedly including abortion, although <a href="http://www.afterabortion.org/research/DeathsAssocWithAbortionJCHLP.pdf" rel="nofollow">probably not actually doing so</a>) is about 13/100,000.<br /><br />By 17-18 weeks, the risk of death from abortion (given in this ACOG article as 2.4 & 3.3/100,000 respectively) is the same as or higher than the risk of death in a vaginal birth. Since many women have unplanned C-sections, you can't be sure that you'll have a vaginal birth, but by 23 weeks gestation, the risk of death by abortion is greater than the current official maternal mortality.<br /><br />And this is using official numbers which, as Christina has pointed out numerous times, and also the other PDF I referenced demonstrates, are falsely low with many abortion-related deaths not being counted at all.<br /><br />Plus, since <a href="http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/20/3/717" rel="nofollow">this French study</a> demonstrated that all deaths occurring during or after childbirth were reported, most of the abortion-related deaths were not, and were only identified from the survey given to doctors as part of the study. I doubt the situation is much different in America, except perhaps to be worse. If, however, you have some *facts* (as opposed to elephant-throwing and saying "it's in obstetrics textbooks -- which, btw, are only as good as the data on which they're based, and if they're based on the false data from the CDC, that ain't saying much!) to show that abortion mortality is closely watched and identified, I'd like to see it. And I know Christina would like to see it too.Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118292622669944944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-29167939033825665512010-05-12T01:35:20.783-04:002010-05-12T01:35:20.783-04:00Or you can use common sense. A c-section involves...Or you can use common sense. A c-section involves an incision in the belly and in the uterus, several inches long. An abortion, even a third-trimester abortion, doesn't involve cutting the patient at all.OperationCounterstrikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11877707857942926743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-14864129549049785702010-05-12T00:12:40.991-04:002010-05-12T00:12:40.991-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.OperationCounterstrikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11877707857942926743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-68144768294980818812010-05-12T00:12:39.134-04:002010-05-12T00:12:39.134-04:00MaryCatelli, your house is different from your bod...MaryCatelli, your house is different from your body. We ROUTINELY force people to share external property. But we NEVER force them to share what is inside the body.<br /><br />Lauren, the fact that ANY abortion is safer than c-sect can be verified in any OB/GYN textbook.OperationCounterstrikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11877707857942926743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-46409849108380174622010-05-11T21:02:06.967-04:002010-05-11T21:02:06.967-04:00If something is inside your body, then you are ent...<i>If something is inside your body, then you are entitled to kill it, no matter what it is. EVEN if it's a person. That's part of what we mean by the word "your" in the phrase "your body".</i><br /><br />And if you are inside my house, I have the right to kill <i>you</i>. Even if you are a person. Even if you are there because I forcibly put you there without your consent. That's part of what we mean by the word "my" in the phrase "my house."<br /><br />Nice try, in other words.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-53295404930066733932010-05-11T17:56:31.332-04:002010-05-11T17:56:31.332-04:00OC, please back up your assertion that 3rd trimest...OC, please back up your assertion that 3rd trimester abortion is safer than c-section or induced labor.<br /><br />ThanksLaurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01843432914495082020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-59361162153089962792010-05-11T16:32:21.685-04:002010-05-11T16:32:21.685-04:00Not according to our Constitution, 5th amendment.Not according to our Constitution, 5th amendment.Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118292622669944944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-1150220025068466972010-05-11T14:06:09.935-04:002010-05-11T14:06:09.935-04:00Army_Wife, you are right, that wanted-ness does no...Army_Wife, you are right, that wanted-ness does not determine personhood. Fetuses are persons, wanted or not. But personhood does not justify banning abortion.<br /><br />If something is inside your body, then you are entitled to kill it, no matter what it is. EVEN if it's a person. That's part of what we mean by the word "your" in the phrase "your body".<br /><br />If ALL the people in the whole humping world were assembled inside your body, then you'd be entitled to holocaust them.<br /><br />If Almighty God himself were located inside your body, then you'd be entitled to kill God.<br /><br />If something is inside your body then you are entitled to kill it. No exceptions.OperationCounterstrikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11877707857942926743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-35132081794016225422010-05-11T09:35:19.650-04:002010-05-11T09:35:19.650-04:00OC, I'm not a doctor but uncontrollably high b...OC, I'm not a doctor but uncontrollably high blood pressure during pregnancy would make me think of pre-eclampsia/eclampsia.<br /><br />Also, whether or not someone is "wanted" does not determine their personhood. There were plenty of folks who haven't "wanted" me over the course of my lifetime but it didn't make me less of a person or less deserving of basic human rights.army_wifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03769443501122541176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-28310959497410749762010-05-10T21:31:42.960-04:002010-05-10T21:31:42.960-04:00Let me make a guess, Christina, that you grew up i...Let me make a guess, Christina, that you grew up in a wealthy household, right?<br /><br />You give evidence over and over again, of having a rich daddy so when you needed money you could just ask him for it. First in the earlier thread, you suggested that ordinary people could afford to raise genetically defective babies, as if the money for that comes from the air, and now you don't seem to understand that hospital time is a valuable, scarce resource which should be concerved.<br /><br />So I'm guessing you have had money all your life, never had to concerve anything. Am I right? Do tell.OperationCounterstrikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11877707857942926743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-10152000646923498062010-05-10T21:17:39.982-04:002010-05-10T21:17:39.982-04:00We should make it a requirement for certification ...We should make it a requirement for certification in OB/GYN in all states, that you prove you are competent to do abortions at all stages in pregnancy. If you can't (or won't) do abortions, then you have no business being allowed to call yourself a GYN.OperationCounterstrikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11877707857942926743noreply@blogger.com