tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post7757924109161697790..comments2024-03-06T19:21:15.708-05:00Comments on RealChoice: Tiller trial: Will Dr. McHugh testify?Christina Duniganhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-2040165767619652522009-03-17T22:16:00.000-04:002009-03-17T22:16:00.000-04:00Lilliput,I also read somewhere that on a "scale of...Lilliput,<BR/><BR/>I also read somewhere that on a "scale of happiness" the people of Nigeria rated themselves as being happier than the people of the United States. Money doesn't solve every problem (which you can see by looking at how many celebrities end up hooked on drugs, committing suicide, or accidentally overdosing on drugs, or otherwise harming or killing themselves or others -- if they were happy, they wouldn't be searching for happiness in a snort of cocaine or a line of speed). There can be happiness found in adverse circumstances; I'm afraid that we in the West are just too sheltered and selfish to believe that anyone can be happy living in conditions beneath or own standard of living.Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118292622669944944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-26015793556800164892009-03-17T22:12:00.000-04:002009-03-17T22:12:00.000-04:00Lilliput,My memory of history may be a little fuzz...Lilliput,<BR/><BR/>My memory of history may be a little fuzzy, but from the best of my recollection, hormonal birth control has only been around for the past say 50-60 years, whereas the quality of life in the world progressed by leaps and bounds from the end of the Dark Ages through the early 20th century. If fewer children is the only way to get out of poverty, then how did our forefathers do that without modern birth control and modern abortion methods? And if they could do it, what is preventing Brazilians and others from doing what Americans and Europeans of the 1600-1900s did? Yeah, I know, there were still slums... but there still *are* slums, despite 50-60 years of birth control and 30+ years of legal abortion.<BR/><BR/>I would also point out that China has very high abortion rates, even forced and unwanted abortion, as well as high birth-control rates, and there are still many, many people living in poverty there. And the same could be said for other locales, such as New York City and Washington, D.C., which have high rates both of poverty and of abortion.Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118292622669944944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-5768090035489112422009-03-17T18:37:00.000-04:002009-03-17T18:37:00.000-04:00Lilliput, you guys have been banging the contracep...Lilliput, you guys have been banging the contraception drum for decades. Has the rate of unintended pregnancy fallen where contraception is readily available and socially sanctioned? HELL NO! It's gone UP. Why? The law of unintended consequences.<BR/><BR/>Say you are alarmed by construction workers falling and being injured or killed. You want to prevent this. So you invent the Bounce Safe -- a device that, if properly maintained and consistently worn, will allow you to escape unscathed from 99% of falls. <BR/><BR/>You release Bounce Safe amid much fanfare. And Bounce Save becomes the norm at many construction sites.<BR/><BR/>But funny thing -- the sites with Bounce Save have MORE injuries and deaths from falls than the sites without Bounce Safe. It turns out that people don't maintain the Bounce Safe properly. They don't get it fitted properly. They don't wear it properly or consistently. And they take far more risks than the workers at sites without Bounce Safe. They neglect to put up safety rails. They show up for work drunk. They leap from beam to beam, confident that Bounce Safe will catch them.<BR/><BR/>This is what happens with contraception. People have 100% faith that it will prevent unintended pregnancy -- even though they don't use it consistently or properly. With more people taking more risks, you get more of the ill effect you were trying to prevent in the first place.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-3793818374569585402009-03-17T18:32:00.000-04:002009-03-17T18:32:00.000-04:00Lilliput, the doctors are indeed a problem. If the...Lilliput, the doctors are indeed a problem. If they were providing real counsel and help the women wouldn't be so demoralized. It takes TWO doctors in Kansas to do a post-viability abortion -- something that didn't even EXIST until the Supreme Court (judges, not doctors) invented it in 1973. <BR/><BR/>And do you really think that pimps and drug dealers aren't helping to create the demand for their "services"? <BR/><BR/>And the developing world isn't poor because it's overpopulated. It's poor because of politics. Look at Singapore. Look at Hong Kong. Wealth and dense population going hand in hand. <BR/><BR/>Abortion is like the wolf in Aesop's fable. He could always find a reason to eat the lamb. People who fall into abortion's thrall will always find SOMETHING it's a panacea for.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-9488146638746931272009-03-17T16:06:00.000-04:002009-03-17T16:06:00.000-04:00Lilliput:You DO know that birth control isn't fail...Lilliput:<BR/><BR/>You DO know that birth control isn't failsafe, right? That people don't take it properly, don't take it at all, or that it fails for other reasons, correct?<BR/><BR/>Now, unless you're advocating forced contraception by government mandate and/or forced sterilization, then your argument will not help them.<BR/><BR/>Also, why is the solution to poverty to always create a culture of death? Why are children always blamed for poverty?Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02400824933822851881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-36091654378647750122009-03-17T11:55:00.000-04:002009-03-17T11:55:00.000-04:00Pro-lifers simply don't agree that death is an acc...Pro-lifers simply don't agree that death is an acceptable solution to poverty. Rather than kill poor people, we'd prefer to help them as much as possible.<BR/><BR/>So Naaman, help them by giving them what will pull them out of their poverty - access to birth control.Lilliputhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793985988929869028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-56117902823088674742009-03-17T09:13:00.000-04:002009-03-17T09:13:00.000-04:00Lilliput wrote:All I'm saying is Tiller is not the...Lilliput wrote:<BR/><I>All I'm saying is Tiller is not the problem and getting rid of him, will not stop the late term abortions. Its like a pimp or a drug dealer. The problem is with the demand.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, there is a big problem with our society in that we encourage killing children as an acceptable solution to many of life's problems. Pro-lifers agree that we need to provide better options for pregnant women, which is why so many of us donate our time and money to crisis pregnancy centers. We also believe that we need to reset our society's moral compass so that abortion is recognized as the appalling crime that it truly is. One excellent way to reset our moral compass is by highlighting the moral failings of abortionists like Tiller and sending them to prison whenever possible. If Tiller goes to prison, it will contribute to society's perception of him as evil.<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, your argument basically assumes that abortion isn't a serious problem. To clarify that, let me apply your logic to a different offense:<BR/><I>All I'm saying is an individual wife-beater is not the problem and getting rid of him, will not stop domestic abuse. Its like a pimp or a drug dealer. The problem is with the demand.</I><BR/><BR/>See the problem? Yes, we recognize that there are problems in our society, and we seek to prevent domestic abuse whenever possible. But we also throw wife-beaters in prison! Because sometimes it doesn't matter how good your excuse might be ... the offense still needs to be punished.<BR/><BR/>Lilliput also wrote:<BR/><I>I just watched another Brazillian fim last night. I can't believe how Christians can live with themselves when they keep contraceptives and abortion away from this nation allowing huge number of slums to develope where feral kids roam like stray cats and dogs which have to be cleaned up when the Pope wants to come and visit.</I><BR/><BR/>So you would advocate mass killing to deal with Brazil's poverty? Those kids would be better off dead then poor?<BR/><BR/><B>That's</B> the logic of proposing abortion to as a solution for poverty. You're assuming that death is better than being poor. If you were consistent about it, you'd be encouraging "mercy killings" for <B>all</B> poor children, not just the unborn ones.<BR/><BR/>Lilliput also wrote:<BR/><I>Your denial of any of the above makes it impossible for anyone of rational mind to take on this Pro Life stance.</I><BR/><BR/>Pro-lifers simply don't agree that death is an acceptable solution to poverty. Rather than kill poor people, we'd prefer to help them as much as possible.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01302890840211374931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-5755809367324164782009-03-17T08:30:00.000-04:002009-03-17T08:30:00.000-04:00All I'm saying is Tiller is not the problem and ge...All I'm saying is Tiller is not the problem and getting rid of him, will not stop the late term abortions. Its like a pimp or a drug dealer. The problem is with the demand. And unfortunately, somehow - countries which have legal abortions and high level of free contraceptives have a higher level of quality of life, living standards, human rights, life expectancy etc etc and these are all "social reasons" as you called it.<BR/><BR/>I just watched another Brazillian fim last night. I can't believe how Christians can live with themselves when they keep contraceptives and abortion away from this nation allowing huge number of slums to develope where feral kids roam like stray cats and dogs which have to be cleaned up when the Pope wants to come and visit. <BR/><BR/>Your denial of any of the above makes it impossible for anyone of rational mind to take on this Pro Life stance.<BR/><BR/>Yes killing babies is horrific - but over population is just as horrific - just look at the thirld world.Lilliputhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793985988929869028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-58291375064024207932009-03-16T17:12:00.000-04:002009-03-16T17:12:00.000-04:00Lilliput, nobody had to respect anybody's idea tha...Lilliput, nobody had to respect anybody's idea that killing a baby for social reasons is hunky dory. If we thought killing babies was an acceptable way of addressing problems, we'd be "prochoice" in the first place.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-22845983914487097182009-03-16T12:43:00.000-04:002009-03-16T12:43:00.000-04:00"As this woman's testimony bears out that these ab..."As this woman's testimony bears out that these abortions are not being done to address women's critical health issues, and also, Tiller is not reporting statutory rape. She was only 14 years old."<BR/><BR/>It doesn't looklike Kelly was raped - she just had sex before turning 16 - there is a huge issue. If you want to bring in the fact that she was a child into it - then you have to respect Kelly's parent's parental rights over their child as they decided that an abortion was the right thing to do. <BR/><BR/>Her beef should be with her parents who obviously forced her to have the abortion as they felt that ultimately they would have to look after it and didn't want that for themselves or their daughter. <BR/><BR/>I see Tiller as just filling a need that unfortunately won't go away even if we put him in jail. <BR/><BR/>I wonder what kind of relationship Kelly had with her Mom, that she successful hid her pregnancy for so long. Its this unhealthy relationship and not her abortion, which led her to continue her sexual, drug and mental ill health.Lilliputhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793985988929869028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-26371081411117834332009-03-16T08:54:00.000-04:002009-03-16T08:54:00.000-04:00Christina, thank you for your in-depth coverage of...Christina, thank you for your in-depth coverage of this case. We know that Tiller will face justice in eternity (as we all will), but I'm starting to hope that he might face justice in this life as well.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01302890840211374931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-83844243843475693812009-03-16T00:32:00.000-04:002009-03-16T00:32:00.000-04:00When I was four my mother was left in a position f...When I was four my mother was left in a position for risking her life at the age of 42, my dad was going through a timne drinking a lot and was not giving any support. She asked for his strength and support and he kept drinking. She would end up having an abortion somewhere around the third week after conception. This was 1971. I always had mercy for my mom in this decision but it still left me for the longest never could see this issue straight. Thank you for the insight and research you have done. In knowing that the medical industry is complicit in cover up and lies I am thouroughly disgusted.G. Caseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11347794128375977943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-11357776950429326702009-03-15T01:00:00.000-04:002009-03-15T01:00:00.000-04:00I posted the sequel to Crazy Pete's Abortion Barn ...I posted the sequel to Crazy Pete's Abortion Barn you linked me to.<BR/><BR/>Thanks!!!<BR/><BR/>God Bless,<BR/><BR/>chuckXtnYodahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09213153183886703801noreply@blogger.com