tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post337752641416486139..comments2024-03-06T19:21:15.708-05:00Comments on RealChoice: "And Then You Can Kill the Baby"Christina Duniganhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-25384083640668077482013-06-22T15:31:31.382-04:002013-06-22T15:31:31.382-04:00I think of how the slavery abolitionists in Englan...I think of how the slavery abolitionists in England were successful in getting their bills passed. Every attempt to outlaw slavery was met with harsh resistance from those Members of Parliament who were backed by slave owners (who were also wealthy and had a lot of money to spend to make sure that slavery was kept legal); finally, the abolitionists were successful in sneaking in language into a bill which basically knee-capped or hamstrung the slave trade. Once the slave trade was hobbling, the abolitionists then moved in for the kill -- the slavers were then so weak and though perhaps not poor, were not wealthy enough to launch much of a counter-attack -- and then they reached full abolition.<br /><br />But as Christina pointed out, they also changed the hearts and minds of the citizenry. I think I've heard it said that we don't need to *just* make abortion illegal; what we mostly need is to make abortion *unthinkable*.Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118292622669944944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-32487974297803456392013-06-22T02:23:50.556-04:002013-06-22T02:23:50.556-04:00I don't think they have a snowball's chanc...I don't think they have a snowball's chance in Hell of actually getting anything passed. And I think they're breathtakingly naïve.<br /><br />My decades of work have taught me that it's far more the attitudes than the law that determine when and how and how often abortions happen. Law is a part of that, but it's much smaller than we think.<br /><br />This is because abortion is, at its core, diabolical. <br /><br />If we got a law passed tomorrow banning all abortions, and the Supreme Court upheld it, I doubt that much would really change. Those in authority do not have the will to enforce those laws. Think of all the anti fornication and anti sodomy laws that are still on the books. There aren't even flutters of eyelids in the direction of looking toward where they are gathering dust on the shelves, much less at enforcing them.<br /><br />That's about how much power an abortion ban would have right now.<br /><br />We can say that therefore, whether the SCOTUS upheld or struck down any absolutist ban, it would really accomplish squat.<br /><br />But then, most of what the incrementalists manage to do accomplishes exactly squat. Abortionists are breaking laws all over the place right now. <br /><br />It's WILL. Nobody in Kansas who had the wherewithal to stop Tiller wanted to, just as nobody in Pennsylvania who had the wherewithal to stop Gosnell wanted to. They just don't care about the women or the babies. Abortion is a religion to them.<br /><br />THAT is our problem. All the bickering about whether we should pass a born-alive act (which is not enforced) or a pain-capable infant protection act (which would not be enforced) is pointless. ALL of what we do is purely educational in actual practice.<br /><br />I need to chew on this more. I wish we could sit down in meatspace over a pizza and bat ideas around.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-4836416568782680432013-06-22T00:35:42.934-04:002013-06-22T00:35:42.934-04:00Great comments here, Christina, and of course I lo...Great comments here, Christina, and of course I love how often you comment and repost my stuff. :)<br /><br />One thought to keep the discussion going: I really like your building analogy, but I wonder if there's one way that it's flawed. It's been my opinion that it's great for everybody to do their thing <i>unless</i> it's harmful to the greater cause. <br /><br />To be fair to both sides, the absolutists would say that the fetal pain bill is harmful to the greater cause because it sends a message that we don't really think all life is sacred. I think I've responded to that pretty clearly in my piece.<br /><br />Meanwhile, I think passing state personhood amendments right now, daring the Supreme Court that is currently overwhelmingly against us to pass even more case law against us, is harmful. <br /><br />IF I'm right, then perhaps instead of both teams working at the same time, we need the people working on the structural integrity first, and then when it's the right time, (i.e. when there's even a <i>chance</i> of victory, bring in the people with the dynamite. <br /><br />What do you think?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com