tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post6677809304079600737..comments2024-03-06T19:21:15.708-05:00Comments on RealChoice: How times have changed.Christina Duniganhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-52902849986777956172010-09-09T10:05:39.088-04:002010-09-09T10:05:39.088-04:00Thanks Christina, I need all the prayers I can get...Thanks Christina, I need all the prayers I can get. I will put in a good word for you in synagogue today.Lilliputhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793985988929869028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-10032396304704812342010-09-07T08:15:40.576-04:002010-09-07T08:15:40.576-04:00Oh, you've created awareness all right, Lil. Y...Oh, you've created awareness all right, Lil. Your problem is a spiritual one, not an informational one. Which I suspected but have now had confirmed.<br /><br />Now I gotta go pray on it.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-34137182370061629572010-09-07T06:05:29.072-04:002010-09-07T06:05:29.072-04:00My job is done. I'v created awareness.
The on...My job is done. I'v created awareness.<br /><br />The only thing you're missing is the fact that that He alone can do His job as He alone knows everything and we see only fragments of a much bigger picture. And it starts by realising that He is not a He (But both a He and a She and Good and Bad and everything else)<br /><br />This is why what looks like kindness turns out to be evil - as in "killing with kindness" and what looks like evil - can actually have some good in it.Lilliputhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793985988929869028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-61949071972499300892010-09-07T00:17:36.567-04:002010-09-07T00:17:36.567-04:00Sigh. I nuked the whole conversation where I took ...Sigh. I nuked the whole conversation where I took the bait. There's no point. Once somebody has reached the point where they really think social ills can be cured with preemptive prenatal strikes, only the Holy Spirit can change them. And I need to stop trying to do His job.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-89188576892443530132010-09-06T05:23:39.907-04:002010-09-06T05:23:39.907-04:00Christina, I think we are on opposite sides of the...Christina, I think we are on opposite sides of the same coin. <br /><br />People that are suffering either end their own suffering through self harm and suicide - or spread their suffering by hurting and killing other people - and the YOU are quite happy to kill them with a death sentence.<br /><br />I'm saying - don't let them be born under circumstances most likely to result in mental illness and criminality otherwise the rest of society will have to pay the burden. You are saying, let them be born and unless they are the minority which don't turn out productive members of society - we will just kill them off then.<br /><br />If a baby has not been treated in a way that they can develop empathy - then how can we judge and kill them for their unempathic actions?Lilliputhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793985988929869028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-32386466210437266422010-09-05T08:39:15.474-04:002010-09-05T08:39:15.474-04:00Lil, you are the one that keeps justifying abortio...Lil, you are the one that keeps justifying abortion on the grounds that it's better to kill somebody than take a chance that they might be miserable. I'm just pointing out that you are mighty selective in how you apply it.<br /><br />If it's good for little babies that MIGHT suffer, isn't it even BETTER for people that you know for sure are suffering?Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-53583872997037891642010-09-05T03:47:12.064-04:002010-09-05T03:47:12.064-04:00Seriously Christina, let go of Darfur- I can promi...Seriously Christina, let go of Darfur- I can promise u that even without nuking them - they will all be gone in a decade or two to aids,famine,murder, some natural desaster or war.<br /><br />Concentrate on making things better, on ensuring that ever child who is born alive has the minimum "good enough" parenting that will make it into a productive member or society. First we need to do that - then abortion will drop off naturally.Lilliputhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793985988929869028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-51845592661101463302010-09-04T20:45:03.373-04:002010-09-04T20:45:03.373-04:00Lil, again with the "cruel to be kind"? ...Lil, again with the "cruel to be kind"? Why not be kind to the hopeless masses in Darfur? Why don't we be merciful and just drop a few Daisy Cutters or MOABs on them, or nuke the place into a sheet of green glass? That certainly would free them from a lifetime of suffering.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-31708632682046847092010-09-04T16:20:17.426-04:002010-09-04T16:20:17.426-04:00Christina, that's where I think u and me come ...Christina, that's where I think u and me come unstuck. I think bringing a child into this world which u don't want to look after is a lifetime of misery from feeling unwanted, unloved, worthless, mental illness, addiction and possibly suicide. Its a case of being cruel to be kind.<br /><br />I don't understand the welfare system in the US - here in the UK - if u are penniless and pregnant u will get a flat, money and all the support u need so no woman has to choose abortion.<br /><br />However, the consequence of this is that we have a culture of entitlement where women think its ok to have babies the rest of society has to pay for. What to do?Lilliputhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793985988929869028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-72345498018247917982010-09-04T06:43:58.263-04:002010-09-04T06:43:58.263-04:00Lil, you must have led a sheltered life if you'...Lil, you must have led a sheltered life if you've never met a cold hearted, materialistic woman. Women are human and are thus just as capable of being evil as men are.<br /><br />And if a woman aborts her baby, she IS inflicting her misery on that child. How much more powerfully can you damage somebody than by KILLING them?<br /><br />I have no objection to women choosing to be homemakers or to work outside the home. It's the KILLING THE BABY that I object to. And it is a constant source of bewilderment to me that prochoicers literally can't get why somebody would be upset that somebody else kills a baby -- or that a woman could feel so despairing that she feels trapped into killing her own baby. Can't prochoicers even begin to envision better solutions?Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-57723030502636371132010-09-04T04:08:29.059-04:002010-09-04T04:08:29.059-04:00Women have to choose because we haven't yet di...Women have to choose because we haven't yet discovered a way to be at two places at once!<br /><br />I have not met any cold hearted selfish and materialistic women so I can't comment on that except to ask, why did they become that way? And to think that as sad as it is - at least they are not inflicting their misery on their children.<br /><br />I think its progress that I as a woman have the right to vote, the right to do the work I want, to be able to choose my own mate - or not to have one if I want. <br />What do u want to do - to go back to the fifties where women were housewives?<br /><br />As for women feeling trapped on abortion tables I agree - they are caught between a rock and a hard place - neither choice is what they want!Lilliputhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793985988929869028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-79159698202513009652010-09-03T22:39:58.445-04:002010-09-03T22:39:58.445-04:00Why should WOMEN have to choose?
Granted, some w...Why should WOMEN have to choose? <br /><br />Granted, some women WANT to choose. They have no particular fondness for babies -- not even their own. They can coldly choose between their child's life and their own material goals. They're selfish and materialistic and willing to kill to get what they want. Watch your back around them.<br /><br />But how many women climbing on the abortion table are feeling particularly liberated? I'd say they're feeling trapped.<br /><br />How is that "progress" or "advancement" or "liberation"?Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-8421689571489304122010-09-02T18:47:06.152-04:002010-09-02T18:47:06.152-04:001. only by misogynists and patriarchies - you know...1. only by misogynists and patriarchies - you know, organizations with 'family' in their title. More and more men are doing the 'mr. mom' thing, I did it for two years myself in 2004-05.<br /><br />2. Yes but there are additional financial costs. Sarah Palin, no, we dislike her because she is a moron and a hypocrite.<br /><br />3. what Lilliput said.Ruperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16141432408537488025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-9493297622974870272010-09-02T17:55:22.581-04:002010-09-02T17:55:22.581-04:00Christina,didn't birthcontrol come about befo...Christina,didn't birthcontrol come about before woman's lib? First comes the ability to control fertility then comes the time in which to dedicate to a career which leads to economic emancipation. I think that's a bit obvious to me. As it is obvious that women always have more of a choice to make as they carry more of the childrearing burden eg pregnancy, breastfeeding and looking after etc. They can outsource that - if they make enough money eg Sarah Palin - I wonder who she has looking after her children - is it her husband? And did she come from money?<br /><br />I'm sure that if u look at the majority of abortions - they are not done by the rich career woman who doesn't want a child to drain her resources but rather the young and poor who already have children they can't afford or those who know they cannot look after a baby yet as they are not financially self sufficient ie at college.Lilliputhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793985988929869028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-31491741064256444512010-09-02T07:32:06.722-04:002010-09-02T07:32:06.722-04:001. Men aren't asked to choose between their ch...1. Men aren't asked to choose between their children and their educations, careers, and businesses. Why is putting women in the "Pick. You can only have one." category considered empowering?<br /><br />2. Women CAN have children and careers. (The fact that Sarah Palin did this is a lot of why abortion supporters hate her so much.) <br /><br />3. It's still materialism that enables women to push for abortion. They value other things more than they value their children's lives.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-61403417319526028322010-09-01T22:30:18.336-04:002010-09-01T22:30:18.336-04:00If they do not have unplanned children they can st...If they do not have unplanned children they can study, pursue their career or start a business. If a woman has an unplanned child and still works there are greater financial impositions - therefore economic freedom is as a result of choice, contraception and abortion.Ruperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16141432408537488025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-11519896413712907612010-09-01T21:21:39.391-04:002010-09-01T21:21:39.391-04:00Lil, I think you're confusing correlation with...Lil, I think you're confusing correlation with causality. When women are more prosperous, they also become more materialistic, and thus more likely to pursue abortion. Abortion is a result of women gaining economic freedom, not a cause thereof.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-40014819645314855952010-09-01T05:40:19.921-04:002010-09-01T05:40:19.921-04:00No Christina, I don't know where you get that ...No Christina, I don't know where you get that from. Darfur is probably caused by many factors including colonialism, slavery, racism, greed etc etc etc<br /><br />All I'm saying is that the provision of legal abortion seems to go hand in hand with better conditions for women.<br /><br />Kathy, women in Ireland and luxumbourg travel to neighbourimg countries to jave abortions. South korea has an aggressive birth control program and if Jamaica has high standards of living - I don't know what planet u r on!<br /><br />China is a different case as they have a population explosion problem - which is why they are currently buying up africa - which is further colonialism - which will be what kills of Darfur and other such troubled places.Lilliputhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793985988929869028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-13697481617818491482010-08-31T19:51:56.086-04:002010-08-31T19:51:56.086-04:00Lil, are you saying that the genocide in Darfur is...Lil, are you saying that the genocide in Darfur is taking place because they lack "safe and legal abortion?" WTF?Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-28053091900751662452010-08-31T09:37:15.968-04:002010-08-31T09:37:15.968-04:00Rupert said,Hm, let's take a look at the count...Rupert said,<i>Hm, let's take a look at the countries which have legal abortion and those which don't. Now let's look at the social conditions in general, living standards, social welfare, law and order, education etc. etc.</i><br /><br />Liliput said, <i>Rupert you have a point, countries with legalised abortions look after the babies that run the gauntlet of fetushood much better.</i><br /><br />Yes, let's look at those, shall we? I wrote <a href="http://wp.me/p9IBz-OS" rel="nofollow">this post</a> some time ago, which looked at different countries' abortion laws and maternal mortality rates; but we can guess at the countries' "social conditions, living standards," etc. I'd draw your attention to countries like China, Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea, Cambodia and Senegal which all have abortion legal for any reason and at any time during pregnancy, but aren't exactly wonderful countries in which to live. While countries like Ireland, Jamaica, Luxembourg and South Korea have what I would consider to be fairly decent living standards, yet restrictive laws on abortion.<br /><br />Correlation, not causation! In fact, there may be sound medical reasons for abortion being illegal in many of these countries in which it is profoundly and demonstrably unsafe to go sticking things inside a woman's uterus, or otherwise induce an abortion without access to life-saving blood transfusions and/or antibiotics. Chile, in fact, has a Maternal Mortality Rate similar to the United States, even though they have the strictest laws against abortion. I believe I've read that they restricted abortion law *because of* the dangers associated with abortion.Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118292622669944944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-20867579638119860172010-08-31T03:32:03.887-04:002010-08-31T03:32:03.887-04:00Rupert you have a point, countries with legalised ...Rupert you have a point, countries with legalised abortions look after the babies that run the gauntlet of fetushood much better. I wonder why that is? <br /><br />As for Darfur - besides nuking it - what would be your solution? Either way - in order to get the middle east, africa and parts of asia into the first world we have to introduce women's rights as that seems to be the most important factor for development - and these include abortion and contraception.<br /><br />What would you rather have - A nuked Darfur or a Darfur with free and legal abortion?Lilliputhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10793985988929869028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-2069676557467461712010-08-31T01:45:23.552-04:002010-08-31T01:45:23.552-04:00Really Katie, do you kiss your children with that ...Really Katie, do you kiss your children with that mouth?<br /><br />Hm, let's take a look at the countries which have legal abortion and those which don't. Now let's look at the social conditions in general, living standards, social welfare, law and order, education etc. etc.<br /><br />Looks like the least barbaric and backward states which have legal abortion.<br /><br />Personally I can't think of anything more backward and barbaric than living and defining your life by the alleged words of an imaginary deity. Just like those dopes in Saudi Arabia and the misogynistic, patriarchal homophobes of other religions.Ruperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16141432408537488025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-35453062384078205262010-08-30T19:17:58.502-04:002010-08-30T19:17:58.502-04:00Bullshit, Rupert. It's an advancement in YOUR...Bullshit, Rupert. It's an advancement in YOUR mind, because you don't have a problem with killing unborn babies. Likewise, fundamentalist Muslims view laws like the one Kathy mentioned as an ADVANCEMENT because it's in line with their concept of what the world should look like. Just because YOU think it's an advancement, doesn't make it so. I can't think of anything more backwards and barbaric than abortion.Katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06497593765013433443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-22833698515402843982010-08-30T19:14:34.666-04:002010-08-30T19:14:34.666-04:00As Ogden Nash said, "There has been a lot of ...As Ogden Nash said, "There has been a lot of progress during my lifetime, but I'm afraid it's heading in the wrong direction."<br /><br />Moving away from protecting helpless, defenseless people is "advancement" toward evil.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-58083823258368176352010-08-30T18:39:57.010-04:002010-08-30T18:39:57.010-04:00There's a difference Kathy. The change in lega...There's a difference Kathy. The change in legal status of abortion from being a crime to not being a crime was an advancement, the same as the change in miscegenation laws was and the inclusion of gay marriage will be.<br /><br />There is no comparison with what happened in Saudi Arabia. Once things like that change, advancement will have occurred there.Ruperthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16141432408537488025noreply@blogger.com