tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post8565755569669494785..comments2024-03-06T19:21:15.708-05:00Comments on RealChoice: Abortion deaths in 1925Christina Duniganhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-52211575198001411442008-12-28T16:14:00.000-05:002008-12-28T16:14:00.000-05:00*shrug* If you want the woman arrested and prosecu...*shrug* If you want the woman arrested and prosecuted, push for it.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-35968746766420634042008-12-28T13:05:00.000-05:002008-12-28T13:05:00.000-05:00Then again it'll be easier to get the woman to tes...Then again it'll be easier to get the woman to testify against the abortion doc if you can offer her a plea. Very difficult to guess which effect would be stronger. <BR/><BR/>Besides which, paying someone to commit a crime, ANY crime, is itself a crime, whose name is Consipiracy, or Solicitation, or Accessory, depending on the details. You may say you WANT to criminalize abortion without criminalizing the patients, but the fact is, that's legally impossible. Right-to-lifism intrinsically criminalizes the patients and no amount of wiggling or waffling will change that.<BR/><BR/>Ignorance of the victim's rights is not, and has never been, an excuse for committing a crime against him. Even slave-owners were bound by law in their treatment of their slaves, and although the laws were extremely poorly enforced, some people did get prosecuted for violating rights they didn't know their slaves were entitled to. Ignorance might be a reason for lenient sentencing, but not for non-criminalization, or non-prosecution, of the patients who pay to have their unborn babies murdered.<BR/><BR/>Come on, admit it. You just don't want to deal with criminalizing a deed common to so much of the female population. Wisely so. The more people think about what right-to-lifism would really be like, the more you get creamed politically. That's why the pattern has persisted since 1980: RTLs win all the elections except the ones that matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-92189486565940334102008-12-28T08:48:00.000-05:002008-12-28T08:48:00.000-05:001. Proving intent. How can you prove to a jury tha...1. Proving intent. How can you prove to a jury that the woman KNEW that the abortion entailed killing a living human being? The DOCTOR knows what he's doing; he's seeing the little arms and legs on the ultrasound, seeing the beating heart. It doesn't take much to conclude that HE knows he's killing somebody. But can you prove that the WOMAN knew that the baby had a beating heart and was minding his own business when he got sucked/scraped/wrenched into oblivion? <BR/><BR/>2. Ease of prosecution. You want the injured woman to turn the bastard in. That's hard to do if she's facing time in the slammer herself. She's very small fish. He's the one doing repeated damage.Christina Duniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04785550737493692252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-70250159456047530332008-12-28T06:00:00.000-05:002008-12-28T06:00:00.000-05:00Joe advocates locking up the women. I was replyin...Joe advocates locking up the women. I was replying to him.<BR/><BR/>Also, why not? According to RTLism, the patients have paid for murder. Why not lock them up?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-60256332004452989102008-12-27T20:25:00.000-05:002008-12-27T20:25:00.000-05:00Most Right-to-Lifers have not been advocating for ...Most Right-to-Lifers <A HREF="http://jivinjehoshaphat.blogspot.com/2007/12/cristina-page-needs-history-lesson.html" REL="nofollow">have not been advocating for locking up women who have abortions</A> (just the providers), it's a strawman argument and you know it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-39803962906933588022008-12-26T17:37:00.000-05:002008-12-26T17:37:00.000-05:00Good thinking! Here's what you should do. Make a...Good thinking! Here's what you should do. Make a big sign that says "Jail the patients!" and carry it at RTL demonstrations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8395646.post-38600849576505962482008-12-26T12:27:00.000-05:002008-12-26T12:27:00.000-05:00The reason the old statutes did not work very well...The reason the old statutes did not work very well was because they did not treat unborn children as real human beings. People accused of murder and rape are not let out on bail. Criminal abortionists were, but they should have been kept in jail awaiting trial so that they would not kill more unborn children and/or mothers and also because, if they were acquitted, the jail time they served would be their only punishment. If you know you will automatically spend time in jail if arrested, you have more deterrence.<BR/><BR/>Also, they did not allow for prosecution of mothers and fathers for their abortion crimes. Many pro-life organizations today argue that somehow parents, while they are responsible for every other crime they commit, are NOT responsible for abortion crimes. This makes no sense. You cannot effectively stop a crime unless you aggressively target both sides of the transaction. You can stop all the criminal abortionists you want, but cannot stop prenatal homicide effectively until you deter parents from committing this crime.<BR/><BR/>If you prosecute mothers and fathers for killing or attempting to kill their children, you will deter many of them from even trying for fear of arrest and prosecution. Some will still seek out criminal abortionists. You must apprehend as many as possible to have effective law enforcement and to save lives. <BR/><BR/>It seems that in the 19th and early 20th centuries they had weak law enforcement techniques. They appear not to have used aggressive undercover operations such as stings. Any suspected criminal abortion operation should have undercover female officers visit them, offer money for abortion and arrest the perpetrators. Every operation could be quickly shut down in this way. Every criminal abortionist taken down should be immediately replaced by a police sting to catch large number of mothers attempting to kill their unborn children. In this way you save lives of both children and mothers. Any type of criminal operation can be quickly taken down if the authorities indicate that this type of activity will not be tolerated.<BR/><BR/>A criminal abortion operation is very vulnerable and cannot stand up to efficient law enforcement. This was lacking in the old days. Abortionists must constantly spread the word that they are in business and committing crimes. The lines of communication are very vulnerable and can be quickly shut down.<BR/><BR/>Abortion referral networks (for illegal abortion or to go out of country) can be quickly eliminated if the people running them know that they are very likely to go to prison for such criminal activity.<BR/><BR/>You can stop criminal abortion and save many lives, but only if you are serious about stopping it and providing real child protection rather than just window dressing.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17386646544581759402noreply@blogger.com