In "Bumping Into Geniuses," ... Danny Goldberg ... reveals how he and a group of [Courtney] Love's inner circle -worried about her heroin use during pregnancy - plotted an intervention.
During a meeting with a doctor at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center's chemical dependency program, the doctor "tried to give clinical advice, suggesting to Courtney that it was not a great idea to have a baby while dealing with addiction," writes Goldberg. That didn't sit well with Love, who exploded.
" 'You're not telling me to have a [bleep]-ing abortion, are you?' asked Courtney, her voice rising with her trademark hostile whine. 'I mean I'm pro-choice, but that doesn't mean that anyone has the right to tell me to have a [bleep]ing abortion.'
"[He] suggested that it might not be safe for the baby, and Courtney, who was only six weeks pregnant, went into a confrontational mode. 'Is that a medical fact, or is that just your opinion? I want to see it in a medical book.' She was interested in medical facts, not a sermon. [He] sheepishly acknowledged that at this early stage of pregnancy a woman could discontinue heroin use with no physical or psychological damage to the fetus. Courtney looked triumphant as she towered over the doctor seated at his desk."
I never thought I'd be holding Courtney Love up as a role model, but there you have it.
See? Pro-choicers aren't so bad, are we?
ReplyDeleteNotice that the DOCTOR "advising" Courtney was posing as prochoice. A lot of pro-abortion people do that, and especially in positions of influence and power.
ReplyDeleteOnce in a while, you get somebody brave enough to stand up for real CHOICE instead of for abortion, the way Ted Kennedy sponsored the Brownback/Kennedy Bill to get doctors to stop strong-arming women into eugenic abortions.
"Notice that the DOCTOR "advising" Courtney was posing as prochoice."
ReplyDeleteBecause when she chose "no" he then had her committed and forced the abortion on her...
oh... wait.
So you consider lying and browbeating consistent with respect for "choice"?
ReplyDeleteI consider a doctor offering medical advice to a patient and then (even reluctantly) accepting the patients personal decision to be entirely consistent with "pro-choice."
ReplyDeleteWhat's more you claim he was "lying" and "browbeating" which even the quoted text does not support.
ReplyDeleteHis *alleged* statements ""[He] suggested that it might not be safe for the baby" and "[He] sheepishly acknowledged that at this early stage of pregnancy a woman could discontinue heroin use with no physical or psychological damage to the fetus" are not contradictory. And the, again alleged, description clearly says that Love was the hostile, using profanity and "exploding", one while describing the doctor as "sheepish."
How can you read that as "browbeating, Christina?
(You know you missed me)
Tlaloc
There are lies of omission as well as lies of commission, Tlaloc, but now that I know your identity I know that you don't consider anything a lie -- regardless of how deliberately misleading -- unless it's the polar opposite of the entire truth.
ReplyDeleteBut for the benefit of the gallery:
Scenario: John has stolen Susan's pen.
Fred sees John writing with a pen. He says, "John, do you have Susan's pen?" John says, "This is my pen." It IS John's pen -- Susan's pen is in his pocket. Oh, by Tlaloc Technicality, John didn't lie to Fred, even though he succeeded in his attempt to decieve Fred about having stolen Susan's pen. He achieved the falsehood without actually UTTERING it. So it's not a lie in Tlaloc's book.
Well, to me, deliberately concealing the truth in order to convince somebody of something that's false is just as much lying as overtly SAYING something untrue. The intent is to decieve. It's lying.
I don't disagree with the idea of lies of omission. But that's not at all what happened here if we accept the account at face value.
ReplyDeleteAgain look at the statements:
"the doctor "tried to give clinical advice, suggesting to Courtney that it was not a great idea to have a baby while dealing with addiction,""
Where is the lie of either omission or comission there? Answer- there is none.
"[He] suggested that it might not be safe for the baby"
Again, where is the lie? It is true that it MIGHT not be safe for the baby. That's not the same thing as saying it is definitively harmful (which leads into the third statement).
"[He] sheepishly acknowledged that at this early stage of pregnancy a woman could discontinue heroin use with no physical or psychological damage to the fetus."
So he says it may cause harm and then admits it may also not cause harm. Again where's the lie?
Let's posit an exactly analagous situation-
Dr: "Being severely overweight isn't a good idea."
patient: "Are you telling me to go on a [bleep]ing diet?"
Dr.: "Being overweight might not be safe for your health."
Patient: "Is that your opinion or medical fact?"
Dr.: "I must sheepishly acknowledge that it is possible to be overweight and healthy."
Same exact thing- being overweight is a serious risk factor for a number of health issue, but is not a guarantee. All of the statements made by the doctor above are accurate and true. No lies of either kind.
Ya know, Tlaloc, I think I'll concede on this one. You got me. Well, 9/10, since as I"m sure you know I consider even the suggestion of an abortion to be grossly inappropriate.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing wrong with you thinking the suggestion inappropriate. Naturally I disagree.
ReplyDeleteclarification- I disagree that it's inappropriate. I.e. we each reach a subjective conclusion regarding appropriateness.
ReplyDeleteit sounded like I was saying I disagree that it's okay for you to find it inappropriate.
I knew what you meant. And welcome back, really. I did wonder where you'd gotten to.
ReplyDeleteThink about it:
ReplyDeleteCourtney Love was sent to a drug treatment facility, not an abortion doctor.
The doctor didn't try to force an abortion on her, he merely informed her that that was where she was headed if she continued to use heroin. He told her exactly what she needed to hear to motivate her to clean herself up and have a healthy baby, and it worked.
This doctor is a hero who saved both Courtney Love's life and Frances Bean, as well. If it had been illegal for the doctor to suggest abortion, she might never have woke up and straightened her life up. She might have kept on using and killed herself and her baby.
Boy, trailer park, you'd find a way to make Legal Abortion the hero in any story, wouldn't you?
ReplyDeleteTry it with Marla Cardamone's case.