MayoClinic.com notes these developmental milestones:
Growth is rapid this week. Just four weeks after conception, your baby is about 1/8 of an inch long. The neural tube along your baby's back is now closed, and your baby's heart is beating with a regular rhythm.
Basic facial features will begin to appear, including an opening for the mouth and passageways that will make up the inner ear. The digestive and respiratory systems begin to form as well.
Small blocks of tissue that will form your baby's connective tissue, ribs and muscles are developing along your baby's midline. Small buds will soon grow into arms and legs.
The Visible Embryo notes the following:
SIZE: 9.0 - 11.0 mm
TIME PERIOD: 37 - 42 days post-ovulation
Head and Neck
Brain is well marked by its cerebral hemispheres. The hindbrain, which is responsible for heart regulation, breathing and muscle movements, begins to develop.
Future lower jaw, the first part of face to be established, is now visible while future upper jaw is present, but not demarcated.
Mesenchymal cells originating in the primitive streak, the neural crest and the prechordal plate, continue to form the skull and the face.
External retina pigment is visible and the lens pit has grown into a D shape. Nasal pits are still two separate plates, but they rotate to face ventrally as head widens.
Thorax
Primary cardiac tube separates into aortic and pulmonary channels and the ventricular pouches deepen and enlarge, forming a common wall with their myocardial shells. ....
Abdomen and Pelvic Regions
The mesentery, which attaches the intestines to the rear abdominal wall, holds them in position and supplies them with blood, nerves and lymphatics, is now clearly defined. Ureter, the tube that will convey urine from the kidney to the bladder, continues to lengthen. Proliferation of the coelomic epithelium indicates the gonadal primordium.
Limbs
Hand region of upper limb bud differentiates further to form a central carpal part and a digital plate. The thigh (rostrolateral part), leg (the caudomedial part) and foot areas can be distinguished in the lower limb buds.
This embryo, taken from an ectopic pregnancy, is the correct size, so I'm assuming it's developmentally similar:
This photo of an opened oviduct with an ectopic pregnancy features a spectacularly well preserved 10-millimeter embryo. ....
Even an embryo this tiny shows very distinct anatomic features, including tail, limb buds, heart (which actually protrudes from the chest), eye cups, cornea/lens, brain, and prominent segmentation into somites. The gestational sac is surrounded by a myriad of chorionic villi resembling elongate party balloons. This embryo is about five weeks old (or seven weeks in the biologically misleading but eminently practical dating system used in obstetrics).
So, there the embryo is, with its developing brain, beating heart, and intestines in place. How does one go about killing it?
The standard method is a suction abortion. With an embryo this small, some practitioners (especially adherents of "self-help" home abortions) use a manual suction device consisting of a large syringe and a narrow tube. Others use the suction machine, with a Karman canula, invented by prochoice icon Harvey Karman.
Here is a chipper ad for these evidently delightful abortions. (Note screen capture, right)Chemical or "medical abortions" are becoming more popular, and in some cases plugged as "home abortions". One drug is used to kill the embryo -- typically methotrexate, a powerful anti-arthritis drug, also used to treat cancer, that attacks the cells in the body that are dividing most rapidly. A second drug -- Cytotec or another prostaglandin -- us then used to cause uterine contractions to ensure that the dead embryo is expelled.
I couldn't find any "after" photos that early, but did find the following images at the Center for Bioethical Reform of 7-week embryos post-abortion:
Now, for women's stories:
I'm thinking that the first picture you showed of a "6 week" embryo is using a different calendar than the 7 week aborted embryo that you show further down with the quarter.
ReplyDeleteI'm getting confused with all of the different methods of counting dates - I count from my estimated date of conception. I think my doctor does to...
The 7 week photos you showed are being calculated that way. The 6 week one you show is calculated from the last cycle - so it would really be a 4 week old embryo.
Don't kill it!!
DeleteI'm trying to use the "weeks of pregnancy" calendar, in which case the intact embryo is a 4-week old six-week embryo, and the aborted embryos are 5-week old 7-week embryos.
ReplyDeleteConfusing enough?
Lol VERY.
ReplyDeleteBut I was pretty certain the tail disappeared a bit slowly than in a week.
If you look at the lower abdomen half of the aborted embryo, its tail is almost disappeared into its spine...
Which is why I was thinking that the 7week-5week embryo would be a bit later than it really is...
My miscarried 7-week embryo looked more like the first photo than the second -- I studied it VERY closely, and I didn't see anything that looked like clearly defined limb buds, let alone digits. (And it didn't die long before the miscarriage, because a heartbeat was visible in an ultrasound just a few days before.) So my guess is that the second photo is a bit later than 7 weeks.
ReplyDeleteLike I said, I'm having to make do with what I can find. Do you think I need to make my "These are the closest I can find, and they're probably a bit off" disclaimer stronger?
ReplyDeletethose abortion pics are more than likely faked. a first trimester abortion liquifies the fetus or the embryo is too small to be seen. at 7 weeks, there are no limbs, digits or anything. at 8 weeks, the digits are webbed, the limbs stubby and the head is the largest part of the body. it isn't until 10 weeks, that we see non-webbed digits, longer limbs and a longer torso.
ReplyDeleteNot if suction is used.
DeleteI just had a 6wk 3 days dated US and suction abortion. I have the products of conception/tissue here in front of me. Using a dissecting scope ( I'm Also a physician), I can visualise the embryo. It does not have any distinguishing features and no limbs. Happy to upload a photo to help with the accuracy of this post.
DeleteI would like to see
DeleteCling to that thought, sew-me-shut. Cling to it with all your might, since it seems to important to you.
ReplyDeleteSew Me Shut,
ReplyDeleteI went to your blog and noticed your most recent post, and I'm sorry for the pain you've gone through. If you really want to know why guys use women and then drop them, I'd suggest you peruse the blog "What Women Never Hear" for answers. Perhaps you will learn something that can keep you from further pain.
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ReplyDeleteThese pics are compelling none the less. I just found out Im 5 weeks pregnant and I know its the wrong time but I would still like to keep it.(The baby already has formed its sex!) It doesnt help that my bf absolutely thinks its the wrong time and wont change his mind not even with all my prodding.
ReplyDeleteMy husband thinks the same thing. I have three and he has two so together we have five. We got married in april and just found out we are pregnant. He wants me to abort and we are already having problems within our marriage. Idk what to do.
DeleteThat is a live child. If you both do not want another child, there are many women who do. Look at your children and know this is how they began. Risking your life is not worth it, honey. Not worth it at all. (I meant no condescension calling you honey. I do truly feel for you.)
DeleteI was 19 and in college. I was unmarried and pregnant. The father told me he could " promise me" he would have nothing to do with the child or myself and he kept his promise. That was more than 20 years ago and my daughter is a Marine. She is brilliant and talented. There will always be good times and bad times but they pass and a child is forever.
DeleteWow Christina. The fact that you just got married and already both have children signifies some preparation in having amother child. If he wasn't ready for that he shouldn't have sealed the deal. Sounds like he's very unsupportive and that must be really hard on you you deserve better.
DeleteWow Christina. The fact that you just got married and already both have children signifies some preparation in having amother child. If he wasn't ready for that he shouldn't have sealed the deal. Sounds like he's very unsupportive and that must be really hard on you you deserve better.
DeleteI am too are in the same situation - found out yesterday that I am pregnant with my bf of 2 yrs. He has a 10 yr old daughter and this would be my first. However, he wants me to abort the pregnancy and I however do not want to but he said if I proceed then I am the most selfish person he has met and I am on my own. I'm 32 and was diagnosed with PCOS - what happens if I abort this child and I am unable to get pregnant again? He is right tho, financially we are not ready but my heart say otherwise. Go through with it and lose him or abort and be miserable with myself?
DeleteHeather, I would like to let you know, your child will give you more joy than your bf. GET an abortion and he could still drop you. Have your child and you will always have your child. Bfs come and go.
DeleteI have an 11 yo daughter, outside of marriage. I broke it off with him when my daughter was only 6 months old. He was not what I wanted in life. I am happily married, 8 years, and my husband adopted my daughter. It takes a special kind of man to be a dad, but any man can be a father.
joybaby, on the one hand, congratulations on your tiny new bundle of joy. You have nine months to get ready and a lifetime to learn the job!
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, it's a bummer that your bf isn't supportive, but remember that it takes longer for the baby to be real to the man. Sometimes it doesn't even sink in until the baby is born and they hold her for the first time. THEN they get it!
Do you have other people who will be supportive of you?
Dear GG, thanks for the encouraging words but I am not keeping the baby - I cant... not if I Want my relationship to grow without the stress of another mouth to feed in a time that is already so stressful for the both of us. i.e two jobs vs no jobs. If we are still together I know that we will have one when the time is right and when we both have jobs and are financially stable as it is now wE CAN BARELY PAY OUR BILLS..
ReplyDeleteBeen there, done that, joybaby. When I got pregnant with my son we had just sold our wedding rings to buy food for our daughter. We were broke. Thank God we had real help and not a well-meaning friend to pat my hand at the abortion clinic.
ReplyDeleteMy dad had just gotten laid off when my mom found out she was pregnant with me.
Things change. Financial problems come and go. Have you tried contacting The Nurturing Network? 1-800-TNN-4MOM.
Joybaby,
ReplyDeleteWhat will it do to your relationship if you sacrifice your child? Do you think it will get better, worse, or stay the same? Statistics show that almost without fail it gets worse.
Please take some time to consider this question as well as all the facets of abortion. And also consider adoption. There are over a million infertile couples in the country right now who would love to adopt a newborn. If you truly cannot afford your baby (in addition to numerous charities, plus particularly pro-life charities, and going to a church in your area and explaining your situation, there is governmental assistance -- most pregnant women are eligible for WIC and Medicaid which will pay for most if not all of your pregnancy and birth expenses, plus give you extra help after the baby is born).
You will most likely be able to work up until the baby is born, and then you can take off some time afterwards, or go straight back to work. It may be tough, but so is the mental and emotional recovery from an abortion.
whats worse would be constantly having to struggle to give this baby a good life, and the rift and strife that arguments dealing with it would cause - longterm. Youre right there probably would not be much of a relationship once that happens!Every body is different at the end of the day you have to make the decision thats best for you. My mom never had any abortions she had nine kids but alot of things we needed to enhance our life we had to do without I refuse to go down that road.
ReplyDeleteBut what can you possibly be facing that is worth avoiding at the cost of your own child's life?
ReplyDeleteIf you want to give your baby a good life, then get in touch with an adoption agency. I know numerous couples who have adopted children -- from babies to age 6 (possibly higher), and from all races and ethnicities (though all the adoptive parents were white). These children are loved and their families consider them to be a blessing. If you cannot feel your child to be a blessing to you at this time, then *please* let him or her become a blessing to another family!
ReplyDeleteI doubt that there is any woman who actually WANTS to have an abortion. Its an unfortunate decision to make and leads to a lifetime of guilt and often regret. But, to be a great mother you need to have the confidence and happiness of self otherwise you will not cope with the demanding pressures of parenthood. If a woman becomes pregnant and doesnt feel she is ready to take on this lifetime of responsibily yet, then she is entitled to do what she deems necessary. I think you pushy do-gooders that try to manipulate people through guilt tactics are indirectly bullying already vunerable people. If you feel that your opinion has so much value, then you must respect that these peoples choices have equal stature and back off a bit!
ReplyDeleteWhy r u so steadfast on
Deletekilling?
I'm glad my mama didn't abort me and I was born during time so many women were using coat hangers. Don't get me going on abortion.
Also the recommendation of adding yet more children to the adoption register astounds me! There are so many children that never get adopted. They grow up in care and are often abused, pushed from foster home to the streets, drugs and worse. I respect that there are some children that go to great homes and loving families, but they are the extreme minority! They gross majority are not so fortunate.
ReplyDeleteEncouraging adoption over early abortion is a very sensitive debate, but if you have not been in either situation, you should really keep it zipped!
This is the most sensible comment I've read. Abortion is a decision that a woman or couple must discuss and make. Nobody else should tell them what to do. The worst thing is when religious people start preaching with all that stuff about the sins, God, and the bible. The bible men were chauvinistic. They never EVER cared about women. They were only simple, common males who obliged women to be sumissive, shy, stupid and harmless. They fucked many women but they didn't allow women to fuck any man they wanted.So, should we care about religion or what fanatics say the bible says about abortion?
DeleteAbortion is NOT wrong when it's performed correctly by PROFESSIONAL, experienced and honest physicians.
Adoption is NOT a solution in any way. Most people WON'T have adopted children. Most couples prefer FIV or other methods.
Why don't you mention the positive cases too? Why do you only focus on the women who suffered, felt regret and had complications?
There are MANY other women out there who have aborted and they say they don't regret it. They didn't want a child or more babies and they feel happy with the decision they made.
Mimi --
ReplyDeleteTo say that a woman "needs to have confidence and happiness of self" to be a great mother, may be true, although some might argue with you. But that's entirely beside the point. Confidence is not a "either you have it or you don't" proposition; and one thing I know for sure is that giving birth can give women "the confidence and happiness of self" they need to be great mothers. Something that a woman who is 6 weeks along will not have nor necessarily know. Nor should she make a life-ending decision based on the possibility that she is not confident at 6 weeks that she will be a good mother. In fact, most women have serious "cold feet" when they find out they're pregnant, even when the pregnancy was planned. That's normal. To make "an unfortunate decision" that "leads to a lifetime of guilt and often regret" over temporary cold feet is not what anyone should want, but it is what is the current norm.
You say that abortion "leads to a lifetime of guilt and often regret" -- that's what we say, too. So who's the pushy do-gooder? Who is manipulating people through guilt tactics? Who is bullying? We're giving information in hopes that women will not make the choice that "leads to a lifetime of guilt and often regret." Oh, shame on us for trying to save women from that! [sarcasm]
Your rendering of all opinions having "equal stature" falls flat on its face -- what you're saying is that "dead baby, live baby -- no big deal; it's basically the same." And it's not.
As far as adoption goes -- most children that never get adopted are those who are not available for adoption as infants or small children. Most prospective adoptive parents want infants, and preferably newborns. Many also are wary of crossing racial or ethnic lines. Many foster kids are not freed up for adoption (or they would be adopted by their foster families), with their biological parents not having their parental rights terminated for possibly years after entering the system.
So, what is under consideration here is putting a newborn up for adoption, with millions of couples wanting to adopt a newborn and waiting for years and years for the opportunity to do that. So, if women don't have abortions but instead give up parental rights to their child at birth, it won't swell the ranks of foster kids who won't be adopted, because newborns will be adopted. It's older kids who have a lower likelihood of being adopted; newborns are always adopted (except some adoptive parents may hesitate at adopting a crack baby or someone with other specific issues -- but right now, we're talking about a normal, healthy woman who is choosing an abortion at 6 weeks when she could grow the baby for another 34 weeks or so and give birth to a healthy baby who would be loved by an adoptive family).
Mimi, ambivalence, and even rejection of the pregnancy, are part of the normal psychological process of adapting to pregnancy. To abort for something that is normal and self-limiting makes as much sense as amputating a limb to treat a bruise.
ReplyDeleteAn embryo is not a baby, you know.
ReplyDeleteAbortion may be sick, but bringing an unwanted baby into the world is just wrong.
Every time I see a Pro-Life bumper sticker, I want to roll down my window and ask how many children the driver has adopted.
Well then use protection dam it
DeleteBy your logic, firefighters shouldn't rescue people unless they, the firefighters, can personally house the people they rescue.
ReplyDeleteAnd you're also making the false assumption that babies that don't get aborted end up unwanted. Do a little research first. You can start with Dr. Alec Bourne, who had successfully challenged the abortion law in England by performing an abortion on a teenage rape victim. He later wrote, "Those who plead for an extensive relaxation of the law [against abortion] have no idea of the very many cases where a woman who, during the first three months, makes a most impassioned appeal for her pregnancy to be 'finished,' later, when the baby is born, is thankful indeed that it was not killed while still an embryo. During my long years in practice I have had many a letter of the deepest gratitude for refusing to accede to an early appeal." (A. Bourne, A Doctor's Creed: The Memoirs of a Gynecologist, London, 1963)
It's so funny how ignorant some people can be. The choice to have an abortion is up to one person... the pregnant woman. If she dies... or finds she aborted 1 of 2 later.... thats her life to live... her thought to think of... or her life to give.
ReplyDeleteYou're just a font of compassion, Phil.
ReplyDeleteI had my first children (twins) at age twenty. Thankfully I had and still have a supportive husband who respects life at all stages and in all forms. We made twelve thousand dollars that year, it was not convenient or easy. We used WIC for formula. I gave birth to my third son 18 months later, and breast-fed him which is no cost, but the important thing here was that we were blessed very shortly after the twins birth with a much better job, with excellent benefits and were actually able to afford all three babies. Times changed again, we lost jobs, make moves and after 14 months of unemployment and living off the kindness of friends and family we conceived our daughter, who we of course kept, and were blessed again with an excellent job, and have even been able to pay our debts in two short years. Now, I have found that we are expecting our fifth, after we thought we were done ( I had an IUD, which places me among the .8% of women who conceive with an IUD, which should also proves that we have always been diligent about birth control, we're just super duper fertile). It is not a convenient time, but I am excited non-the-less, because I have learned through experience that babies are truly blessings, and I can't imagine my life without any one of my sweet children. Life is life, easy and hard, take what is given, come what may!
ReplyDeletei have 3 kids and i am 5weeks prego.....when i had my 3rd child as a c-section dec 2009 ...the doc told me that because iv had 2 c- section & 1 tummy tuck that i wasnt allowed to have anymore kids.. i really dnt belive in abortion but i also dnt want anything to happen to me nor the baby i really dont knw what to do about this????
ReplyDeleteDon't despair, gogo! You just need to find a different doctor. Far too many women end up having unnecessary abortions because their doctors see abortions as defensive medicine -- they can get sued if something goes wrong with a pregnancy, but not if they refer for an abortion. They're protecting their wallets more than anything else.
ReplyDeleteGo to Pregnancy Centers Online to find your nearest pregnancy center, explain your problem, and they can help you find a doctor who can help you avoid an unwanted abortion.
Keep me posted. I'll keep you in my prayers. You can email me at cdunigan@hotmail.com if you don't want to post on a public forum. If you're having trouble finding a doctor I can help you.
Gogo85,
ReplyDeleteNot knowing your particular situation, I cannot speak with absolutes. Many doctors don't want women to have more than a couple C-sections, so it is possible that if you had 2 C/s then he was advising against a third. Other doctors are not so restrictive -- in fact, many women have 5 or even more C-sections without a problem. I believe one of the Kennedys was rather famous for having had 10 or 13 C-sections. It is true that your risk of problems increases with every uterine surgery and every increase in scar tissue, but it is by no means definite that you will have any problems, and the absolute risk is fairly low.
I don't know how a tummy tuck factors into this, but GET A SECOND OPINION or a third or a fourth. Check out ican-online.org for more information from the International Cesarean Awareness Network. There are groups of women all over the country who have had C-sections, and they will be able to help you find doctors that are VBAC-friendly and/or who are not frightened by a C-section scar.
At the very least, please clarify with your original doctor (including getting your records from his office and also from the hospitals where you have given birth) to see if there is some real reason why pregnancy is inadvisable in your condition. Most likely, it is like what GrannyGrump said -- merely defensive medicine so that you don't sue the doctor.
In addition to what GG said about a pregnancy center, you can also check out pro-life and/or Christian OBs or midwives in your area who may be able to offer real hope rather than just an unnecessary abortion.
I will just add as a side note... if your doctor was so sure that you shouldn't get pregnant, why didn't he strongly advise that you get your tubes tied and/or have a hysterectomy? (particularly at the time of your last C-section?) I mean, if pregnancy were seriously contra-indicated in your situation, one would think that making sure you couldn't have children would be warranted.
i was recently informed that i was gonna be a grandma for the first time and i was excited now i was told that my sons g/f is aborting the baby cause her mom said so i don't know what to do of if there's anything i can do can someone please help me before it's too late
ReplyDeletegogo85 i would get a second opinion if i were you something doesn't sound right i finally had a second child by c-section in june 2009 and i am thankful for her i love kids
ReplyDeleteShorty, how well do you know the gf's mom? Is this somebody you could approach? If you could speak to her about her concerns, and about the reality of the baby, and about how you would be willing to support the couple in their parenting, about the risks to her daughter's future fertility and her well-being, etc.
ReplyDeleteIf you can't talk to the mom, at least talk to the gf. Especially stress that abortion isn't something you can change your mind about afterward, how you'd hate to see her eaten up with grief like the Silent No More women.
You can also go to the Silent No More link in the sidebar and see if there is a post-abortion woman near you that you could connect the gf with.
And pray, pray, pray!
There are virtually zero risks to future fertility. You just talk and talk and talk but you dont have any clue WHAT youre talking about. All of you people, you just make things up to try and force your silly antiquated opinions on other people. All I know is Im glad Im not like you lady. I respect others and their opinions and their choices. The choice to abort is harmful to no individual besides the mother. I see no reason to find fault with a decision that hurts no person outside of the decision maker. I do not consider an embryo to be a person, considering it has no thoughts or feelings,its only a potential life at this point.. Basically the same exact thing as a sperm.I guess men should probably never ejaculate either. Geez.
DeleteEmbryos certainly are people. They can be seen on ultrasounds coiling in pain and fighting the abortion tools as the abortion is going on. They cannot express themselves as we can but they have the same right to the pursuit of happiness as we do. You cannot proove that they have no thoughts or emotions, but there is evidence that they respond to their environment, feel pain, and are developing memories in utero.
DeleteThe two pictures of the fetuses misrepresents the gestational age although you clearly emphasis that you havent corrected them...
ReplyDeleteThe reason why im writing to this sight is brcasue i am 21 years ols and never thought i would ever have an abortion. I believed once u concieved u were the protector of that child n no harm shall ever reach him/ her especially by its own mother and thats how i felt when i became pregnant with my son at 18 years old. I wasn't the proudest mom(being pregnant at a young age)but i loved my lil baby dearly. Lasy year in august 2009 i had an abortion. A decision i did not take lightly and still regret it to this day but i believe in womens rights especially pro-choice n always did. If a women has an abortion it should be her decision, she got pregnant accidently, is not ready to raise a child she might resent(and trust me as a young mother, most young mothers i kno do resent their child and leave it with others)rape victim etc. although there is an option for adoption, its hard to feal that baby growing inside of you and give it up, most mothers wont but then they'll be living a poor life, never giving the child a life they would deserve. Im strugglong as it is with my first child n currently homeless, dont believe juss because u have a baby everything will fall into place. I love my son n dont regret him at all but how was i to live with two chilren, living in someone elses living room and go to school? Dont judge, u dont know everyones situation and im not trying to make an argument im just stating my facts of my life and bringing reality into this situation. I cried hysterically before they even started the procedure but i kno that if i didnt i wouldnt be able to give the son i do have a better life than he deserves. he deserves a house to grow up in, a nice neighborhood and a backyard to play in. he deserves the best n i will make sure, because hes here i will do everything in my power to provide it. Again i never expected i would have an abortion, i didnt nor want to concieve again until i achieve my goals for my son n do look forward to having another child n adopting too but it was whats best for me. pro-lifers have their opinions n its respected but do not put down others that differs from your own. p.s i was 7 weeks n believe abortions shouldnt be performed past 8. Again my opinion
I totally agree with you anything passed 8 wks shouldn't be allowed but up til that point it is the choice of the mothers technically speaking it is not murder when the said embryo is unable to survive without the life of the carrier. People need to stop passing judgement. I don't think I could ever have an abortion but I don't judge those who have (before 8 wks)
DeleteWe all were still ourselves at less than 8 weeks development. If someone could go back in time and convince your mom to abort you at 5 weeks you'd be be fighting and pleading for your own life, the age doesn't matter its a unique individual. You could've given that baby up for adoption but you chose to put your own discomforts with that process before the right of that baby to exist and have a chance to pursue its own happiness. Instead of defending abortion you should encourage prevention and adoption. It's not okay for everyone to kill kust because you have killed. This sick abortion culture needs to change and women need to be more responsible with their bodies instead of killing babies.
DeleteMandy, there's a prolife resource in my community that is working with a woman I know -- she got an eviction notice from a home that was substandard to begin with. The pregnancy resource woman looked at the pictures the woman had taken of her home and said, "This eviction notice is a blessing. No way am I letting a baby live in that place." She is now in the process of getting the mom into an apartment in a complex where her own sister (the prolife resource woman's sister) lives. Calling management to get them to cut some slack on the security deposit. Calling around to get donations to cover utility deposits. Moving fast and sure to get the woman into safe, affordable housing pronto. She's also getting the woman a washer and dryer. All at no charge to the woman. The only thing she's asking of the woman is that she make a to-do list that will move her toward her short-term goals, and follow through on them.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't that sound better than an abortion? It does to me. And I can't for the life of me why prochoicers think it's more compassionate to have the woman crying and not wanting to do it, take her money, do the abortion, and send her back to deplorable housing (or in cases like yours, no housing at all).
GrannyGrump and kittykay_mb,
ReplyDeleteTHANKYOU!!! Your opinions are only too right. I am not sure how any woman can choose to end their child's life. Definately consider adoption before abortion, I gaurntee 95% of women will change their decision to keep their child. I don't know how a woman who chooses to abort can ever look at a child again without knowing they killed their own. Sex is not an accident and neither are BABIES! If your not ready for a baby don't have SEX.. get a freakin vibrator. I have no sympathy for the women who died during or after an abortion it's called 'karma'.
I found out I was six weeks pregnant a few days ago. I was ecstatic. My boyfriend vehemently refused to let me keep it.
ReplyDeleteAfter much arguing, crying, begging, and consolement from friends and family, I decided to go through with the abortion he made me set up with Planned Parenthood.
He wouldn't take off work to go to the abortion with me. I had to witness my ultrasound, my beautiful peanut-shaped embryo, moments before I killed it alone. I had to take mifeprostol, the "no-going-back-pill," by myself. Every moment I regretted it but I went through it for him.
The next day, while I was bleeding out our baby, he wouldn't even take the day off work (again) to take care of me, even though the doctor said I needed someone there to make sure everything went okay.
I endured extremely painful cramps as I passed my baby, chills, and vomiting so bad I couldn't keep a little water down alone.
Every moment I regret doing it, even though I knew I would. I'm still crying thinking about what I did for him, what I had to give up to make him happy. I have a piece of paper with my ultrasound picture on it and I fall asleep with it in my hand or tucked safely away in my dresser where I can look at it when I want.
That's so sad. He sounds like a very selfish person and I hope you find the strength to one day leave him. The intensity of love you would've had for that baby would've far surpassed the tainted love you have for this man. I'm so sorry you now have to live with that guilt and I hope you're courageous enough to not make the same choice if this ever happens again. As much as he fought the process, your boyfriend, if he's at least somewhat of a good person, would've loved that child too. I hope you work on your own self-esteem so no one can ever have such a terrible influence on you.
DeleteHM, don't hurt alone. Here are some resources:
ReplyDeleteAbortion Changes You
Hope After Abortion
National Office for Post Abortion Reconciliation and Healing
Why do women sacrifice so much for men who clearly care so little?
I am approximately 5 weeks pregnant. I am in a stable situation with 2 jobs and a house. I am a nurse. I am uninsured and I dont think I will qualify for medicaid. With all my other living expenses I cant afford to pay for my prenatal care. On top of that it appears that I may be a single parent. This was premeditated and I know they get cold feet in the beginning but I dont think he will change. He doesn't think he is financially stable for another kid. He was extremely excited at first and his family is too.
ReplyDeleteMac, situations are always changing, but dead is forever. Do you want to choose dead for your baby?
ReplyDeleteIf not, then you have plenty of time to address everything else. Check with your local Pregnancy Care Center. They often arrange free or low-cost prenatal care to women in need. I had my daughter with no medical coverage. I had to shop around a lot, get leads from people, and make payment plans, but I got excellent care.
Keep us posted.
Mac, you may not "think" you qualify for Medicaid, but you probably do. Check it out, at least. Most states have pretty liberal standards for pregnant women qualifying for Medicaid, so even if you didn't qualify as a non-pregnant woman, you may as a pregnant woman. As Christina (Granny Grump) said, the choice for death is a forever choice -- do you really want to make that choice when a situation may change?
ReplyDeleteYou mention "other living expenses" -- is there a way you can cut down on those? Can you cut out cable for a year and reduce your cell phone plan so that you can afford a $100 midwife or doctor visit for that month instead? I bet that if you explain your financial situation (if it truly is that desperate) to just about any pro-life and even some "pro-choice" medical providers, they will give you a reduced rate. ["The Complete Tightwad Gazette" book and financial counselor and radio host Dave Ramsey are two wonderful resources to start with, in trying to live frugally and/or within your means.]
Many hospitals and doctors/midwives will give you a reduced rate if they know you are financially strapped, and/or don't have insurance (so are paying cash), and/or pay in advance. You have about 8 months to cut your lifestyle to the minimum (assuming you haven't already) to save the money to pay for prenatal care and the hospital bill. [You could also look into birth at home or a birth center -- the average midwife fee, which covers all prenatal visits and attending the birth is about $3000-4000, but some midwives have a "sliding scale" for people who can't afford their full fee.]
You may be a single mom, but your boyfriend (who was extremely excited at first, in your words) may realize that children don't have to be that expensive [and even if they are, they're worth it. You're talking about putting your baby to death over money!] and that he should be the father to your baby, just as much as he is the father to his other children. If at the end of the pregnancy, you are still facing single motherhood and you don't want to be a single mother, or you want your baby to have a two-parent family, then you can give him or her up for adoption.
Everyone considering abortion, know that there's help. Your baby does not have to die.
ReplyDeleteDon't kill the child because you think you can't give them a good life.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150103617375961&id=1196469673
ReplyDeleteA worried woman went to her gynecologist and said: ‘Doctor, I have a serious problem and desperately need your help! My baby is not even one year old, and I’m pregnant again. I don’t want kids so close together.’
So the doctor said: ‘Ok and what do you want me to do?’
She said: ‘I want you to end my pregnancy, and I’m counting on your help with this.’
The doctor thought for a little, and after some silence he said to the lady: ‘I think I have a better solution for your problem. It’s less dangerous for you too.’ She smiled, thinking that the doctor was going to accept her request.
Then he continued: ‘You see, in order for you not to have to take care of 2 babies at the same time, let’s kill the one in your arms. This way, you could rest some before the other one is born. If we’re going to kill one of them, it doesn’t matter which one it is. There would be no risk for your body if you chose the one in your arms.’
The lady was horrified and said: ‘No doctor! How terrible! It’s a crime to kill a child!’
‘I agree’, the doctor replied. ‘But you seemed to be OK with it, so I thought maybe that was the best solution.’
The doctor smiled, realizing that he had made his point. He convinced the mom that There is no difference in killing a child that’s already been born and one that’s still in the womb. The crime is the same!
Together we can help save precious lives!
Learn from Yesterday, live for Today, hope for Tomorrow...
http://www.operationsaveamerica.org/890.htm
Which child is going to starve to death through poverty ?
ReplyDeletetoo all these people here ill say a few lines what matters if u are walking and some one stabes a son or a mother or a father what would you do
ReplyDelete?????
its the same with abortion if got didnt know you need that child you wouldnt get pregnant plus what about you abort this prenancy and you have a car smash were u loose all kids and you get part of ur body removed u stay alone all your life thing of what god has gave you before you reject that gift !!!!!
if some one gives you a 700$ gold ring you would love him talk about it to few friends but when god gives you what billions of human from men to women wish and cry and get operations surgery's done to get just 1 child and still dont get and you want to pay money to send off gods gift to you !!!
AT LEAST FROM 7 CHILDREN 1 WILL FIGHT FOR THERE LIFE TO SUPPORT YOU AND SHOW YOU THE HAPPINESS YOU MISSED OUT ON {WITH NOTHING IN RETURN}
23 stages of human embryo development
ReplyDeletehttp://virtualhumanembryo.lsuhsc.edu/HEIRLOOM/Stages/HEP.htm
-- TO ALL --
ReplyDeleteI have placed a child for open adoption, made the "choice" to receive an abortion, killing my unborn child, and I am now raising a child. Having personal experience in all three areas, I feel obliged to speak up with the hope of saving a life. Although I am not an abolitionist, I have found this blog to be very informative and comforting to anyone who is faced with this decision. Please, become informed and educated to the max before deciding!!!
http://abolishhumanabortion.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2011-04-19T07%3A30%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=7
I am 26 years old and have just recently ended a 5 yr relationship, it was rocky and my ex is suffering from some ptsd issues. I was 19 years old the last time I,had a baby. Making my son to be almost 7 now. I just found out I am about 6 weeks pregnant. I have finished college and started a new career. I have made more promising endeavors in my life than most 19 yr old single moms get the opportunity to do , but I can't help but feel lost and ashamed again. I dont know where to look for support? My ex of course wants to keep it, but I,have explored abortion as an option and I,dont know if I,have it in me. Especially since I pride myself in being such a good mother. I,feel quilty for my son if I take away a sibling, but I feel quilty givimg him one and takinh away all that love and attention I,have been able to give only to,him for 7 yrs. I know myself and I think this will be something I will not be able to live with the rest of my life, but heres my power struggle. My,dad is broken hearted and disapointed again. Explaining I got a one time pass and,i,have messed up again. He,states he will not be able to get over this, like he did my last child. He saw him as a blessing statimg this one is not. He has no,use for my ex and think it will horrible either together or apart if I,bear his child. He openly,stated to me that if I follow through with this, he will still love me, but he will miss me. Stating our ties would be disconnected. I domt knkw exactly what answers I am looking for, I,just feel so hopeless and,scared and dont know where to look anymore. I saw this posting page and figured u are all unbiased and it would be nice to,get it off my,chest. Any words will help right now. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteBer, what you're feeling is normal. Sadly, women aren't told that any more. It used to be that we understood that panic and ambivalence are normal, and that you settle in and welcome your baby.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't thrilled when my daughter cropped up with a second unplanned pregnancy 7 years after the first. I was Ms. No Enthusiasm during the pregnancy -- but I knew I'd change my mind when I saw the baby. Grandparents typically do.
Maybe you can talk to your dad about how he'd feel if you ended up as devastated as you fear that you'll be if you get rid of this baby. Let him see that an abortion risks him losing the daughter he knows and loves, and getting a traumatized, sorrowing mother instead.
You can also contact pregnancy center. Look in my sidebar for links. They can give you friendship and encouragement.
Keep in touch! I'll be praying for you.
I miscarried at 8 weeks about a month ago. I was so distraught I have not sat down to calculate if the fetus was eight weeks or if it was eight weeks from my last period. (I was due April 23 and miscarried Sept 30, but no heartbeat at appt 5 days prior). In any case I declined a d&C and miscarried at home. The dr. told me it would just be a blob of tissue (chromosonal defects). I almost believed her until I saw the tiny fingers through a clear part of its gestational sac (sorry to be gross). I then realized the blob I was looking at was only the sac and my baby was inside. Like L. said, I also studied my baby closely. My baby "fetus" was in perfect condition and looked like the pictures I searched on the internet for "6 week fetus" or "7 week fetus". It had all of its fingers formed and it looked like the eyes were drawn with a very fine dark inked pen. After researching I realized the lumpy abdomen was from the stage right before the intestines move into the body. I could not tell if the toes were formed yet but I was amazed that something so small was already so human. The tail was gone. Seeing this had made me all that much more apalled at the horrific abortion procedures that go on. I dont understand it, and I despise abortion even more now that I have an understanding for what is being destroyed at such an early stage. I was definitely aware that a life was lost.
ReplyDeleteTo anyone who is planning on having an abortion because "you have no other choice", know that you do. You are being decieved to think otherwise. Ask God for strength to do the right thing..every step of the way. God will give it. A promise-"They that wait upon the Lord will renew their strenght they shall mount up with wings like eagles..."isaiah 40:31 God can change your situation, but he requires you to take the first step (in the right directon). Sorry, but thats just how it works. Please dont kill it. It is a baby in the womb, I know because I saw mine!
ReplyDeleteHugs, Abbey.
ReplyDeleteI had an abortion three weeks ago. It was an experience, and still is to say the least.
ReplyDeleteI have two children. They are 2 1/2 and 10 months. I love them more than anything in the world. I knew I could not handle another baby on my own. My husband is a truck driver, and is never home. He was supportive and caring about all of this as much as he could be from so far away.
I went to the clinic alone. My best friend was working and my other friend was watching my two children. I saw the protesters outside the clinic holding a sign saying "Mommy are you sure?" I had a panic attack and drove past. Turning around in a KFC parking lot and called my husband hyperventilating. The reason I was so upset is because I was ON their side. I was the one marching up and down those sidewalks praying the rosary. Call me a hypocrite, or whatever you want, but I knew this was the only thing I could do.
I left the clinic relieved. I was happy it was over. But it wasn't yet. The next day I went to my best friend's house to expel the baby. It was in it's sac, safe and sound. But it's life was gone. It was the hardest thing for me to see. I was sad for this baby, sad that it would never be able to grow up and talk and play. I knew that I could not handle being pregnant again so soon.
Selfish? Step in my shoes and then care to judge. I didn't just do it for myself. I didn't kill my baby so I could go party every night, I did it because before, I was too exhausted to change my daughter's diaper, or make my son dinner. I did it so I could give them the best life possible, and I will have another baby in a few years.
Would I make the same choice again? Yes. I hate saying that, but I know that if time turned back and I would know how I feel now, I would still do it. I was so exhausted before that I could hardly care for my children. I wish there was a different way, but I could not be responsible for another person's care so soon.
I cry sometimes, usually at night when I'm alone. I buried my baby, and named him Gabe. I will always love him, and I know that he is waiting in heaven for me.
So sorry what you did. But be like me and accept you penance.
DeleteDon't kill anymore
Emily, I know you are not selfish, and I believe you when you said you did it for your other children. Coincidentally, I have two children the exact ages of yours, and even with a husband whose job does not require him to be away too often, I am often exhausted, emotionally as well. I often feel so inadequate. I look forward to when my husband comes home. Even with his support, I felt so overwhelmed at the timing of my last pregnancy, so I know the fear you felt was multiplied in comparison to mine. I do believe you were in an impossible situation. I believe we are overcomers in Christ Jesus, and I hope you will come to the place where you understand this the next time you are faced with an impossible situation. I am sorry for the pain you are having to go through as a result of this. I know your sense of loss for your baby is real, despite the stress that having him would have brought. I an not a spiritual person who does the right thing, but I am saved by His grace. I dont have the right to judge anyone. I prayed for a miracle when i found my baby had no heartbeat, then I turned my back on God in my anger when it did not happen. I told him I hated him. Somewhere it the darkness I brought upon myself I pleaded with him to free me of my anger, and help me to understand. He began to do just that, over the period of about a week. He began to peel away all the layers of anger hatred and misunderstandings I had toward Him. Believe me, I couldnt say it if it wasn't true, my anger was that strong. My anger and nagging mistrust towards God consumed me many years of my life, and this was the last straw for me. Thanks to his mercy "the last straw" that should have pushed me permanently away, brought me back to Him instead. I will never be the same. I pray that God will give you the answers you need, as he did for me.I pray that he will draw you into his loving arms, as he did for me. I pray that he will give you the understanding you need for ALL of the challenges you face. There is a scripture that says Draw near to God and He will draw near to you! I know you will be alright!
ReplyDeletejoybaby, are you inadvertently stating you'd rather replace your siblings with material possessions? You said your mom had 9 kids but you all lived without and it was not worth it. Which brother or sister would you rather weren't born so you could have new clothes, etc.? Are things really that important to you? Are these the values you want to live by? I understand your plight, but your reasons are not good ones. Superficiality devalues life.
ReplyDelete"p.s i was 7 weeks n believe abortions shouldnt be performed past 8. "
ReplyDeleteHow convenient
Everyone,
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid I've made a terrible mistake. I was 5 weeks pregnant and made the decision with my boyfriend to get an abortion. My boyfriend is in the military, living on the other side of the country. I'm not able to move to him right now and the military will be putting him god knows where in the next couple of months for a 7 month training program. I don't have support on my end and was terrified of doing it alone...I didn't see any other option that would be good for the baby.
I'm now home, away from my boyfriend dealing with this by myself. I really wish I could go back in time and walk out of the clinic before I did it. Im ashamed and disgusted in myself for making this move.
I'm on a medication that keeps me from getting an infection. I'm feeling so sick, extremely tired, and cramping. Is this normal? Its been 7 days since the abortion.
Didn't you consider adoption for baby...took easy way out...hmmmph
DeleteHugs, Puma.
ReplyDeleteOn my sidebar are links to prolife pregnancy help centers. Call the one nearest to you for help getting advice from a qualified doctor who is used to helping women after abortions.
Hi I'm 5 weeks pregnant n just got married n im trying my best to keep the baby but its so hard with no support
ReplyDeleteHelly, in the sidebar is a list of places that offer help. Prayers.
ReplyDeleteI found out over Christmas that I was about 5 weeks. I just got out of a two year relationship with who I thought would be my husband. it was very emotional, so I clung onto my best friend. I was abstinant with my boyfriend the entire relationship because we wanted to wait until marriage. anyway, through all the emotions, my best friend and I began a new relationship after we found out we had feelings for each other the whole time we had known each other. I became sexually active with him and am now pregnant, but the moment I found out, I thought about my ex...I love my best friend but I don't know if I'm in love with him enough to start a life and raise a child with. I'm only 21 and he was my first sexual relationship. I have never believed in abortion but for some reason am completely considering it...I'm a junior in college and he doesn't even know what he wants to do in life. our families are surprisingly very excited but for some reason I feel that everyone is happy but me...this was not the way I wanted to start a family. I've been struggling as a Christian because I know this would not please God in any way, my actions have not pleased Him for the last year I'm sure...I just don't want this baby right now, and although I value life at the moment of conception, how can I love a baby when I get disgusted at the thought of having one right now? :/ adoption is an option yes, but I know at that point I wouldnt wanna give up my child...but does that mean I have to live in misery the rest of my life?
ReplyDeleteKayla, what you're going through is a normal part of early pregnancy, and it's temporary. Abortion is permanent. Then you end up going through the rest of your life knowing that you betrayed not only God and your baby but yourself as well. You will live the rest of your life knowing that, out of fear, you killed your first child. Do you really want that future for yourself?
ReplyDeleteYou have people around you who are supportive, and are ready to welcome this baby -- as you will. Been there, done that.
I truly do hope I get over those ideas of my life ending because I'm so young. really all thats making me feel this way is that I'm caught up on someone who probably isn't even thinking of me...but my best friend, the father is very supportive. no I wouldnt be able to live with myself, but this is such a life change...I guess I just need to adjust to it...besides love isn't alllll about fuzzy feelings all the time...its about who will be there with and for you during difficult times...thank you for your response, please keep good thoughts for me and the future of my little family
ReplyDeleteHugs, Kayla. And though no, it's not all warm fuzzies, there is plenty of room for joy -- something an abortion leaves no room for.
ReplyDeleteTry reading this over: Treating the normal as if it's abnormal, to sell abortions.
Kayla, most of us have the idea that marriage is built on romance, but that's false. Most of us do have romantic feelings for the person we marry, but these feelings fade (usually in 2 years or so), and if the marriage is based solely on that, then there is no foundation for it to continue, which is partially the cause of the high divorce rate we currently have.
ReplyDeleteLove is not primarily warm, fuzzy feelings (as you have said); it is action. I commend to you the following articles, "Marry Without Romantic Appeal?", and also the next two posts on that blog, particularly this section:
Second Principle. Women quite naturally come to love whomever they take close care of. The same applies with romance. Act more romantic with and about him and she will feel more romantic. Eagerly initiate romance activities (with him of course). Smother love will help her but it may turn him off. If needed, do the best she can to fake romantic notions without going too far. In other words, fake it ‘til you make it. Will it generate greater romantic love? Sure, if her intentions are sincere, if her heart is dedicated to generating a great marriage. Moreover, it will help generate the enduring love that will be needed in a year or two after the altar.
I guess I'm sharing this (and the post right after this one is a lengthy comment made by a woman who did just this - marry someone she wasn't all warm and fuzzy about - and is extremely happy, and has grown to love him romantically), to give you hope that even though you don't know if you have the "right kind of love" for this man, the father of your baby, and your best friend, that it will come, if you do what is contained in the article, and you can be blissfully happy with him.
Ladies,
ReplyDeleteI have two children and had two abortions, the first was coerced by my husband, all the same arguments...already have kids, too much $ to care for, exhaustion etc. All I remember is throwing up so badly and nothing coming out, because they tell you not to eat. The women at the clinic were so nice, but as I was leaving turned their heads as if I wasn't even there. I wept for weeks.
The second, I was so numb and traumatized from the first was easy to get into. I waltzed in there sure of what to expect. I took the pill and waited for the sleep to come through. The ladies were as nice as they were before, but when they saw my chart gave a false smile. When the doctor came in I was wide awake, before I could tell him I made a mistake and changed my mind he was raking and suctioning the little life out of me. It was horribly painful and anxiety was the least of what I felt.
While in recovery (because I had to drive myself home)I heard the ladies speaking in spanish, they assumed I couldn't understand, talking about how stupid we all were for having abortions, if we didn't want babies we shouldn't have sex. I was mortified.
Months later. I wanted that life inside of me so bad I tried to conceive, I had been countelessly fertile before I figured it would not be a problem. WRONG. I couldn't get pregnant no matter how hard I tried.
Hindsight. Abortion is not the way. I don't know you or your situation but I can "un zip" my lips because I've been there. It is a horrible life regretting experience and the women who tell you otherwise are simply trying to make themselves feel better. Misery loves company. Abortion is WRONG children are ALIVE. no matter what stage the pictures project.
I made a mistake I can NEVER take back, but you don't have to. Listen to the truth not all of these people validating CHOICES. You can choose to murder someone, that still doesn't make it right.
YOu will regret it, and it will impact your life in ways pictures, blogs, and reports cannot describe.
I've had two abortions, and I don't regret either one.
ReplyDeleteThats sad....
DeleteThat's great! Never pay attention to people's bad comments. Just do what you feel is right for YOU. The people will never help you, they just stick their noses wherever they can because they have all this religious beliefs, chauvinistical thoughts and need for feeling superior to others... You didn't do wrong. You didn't want children. I think you were wise and stopped a process before it was too late... if you had had those babies, you would have suffered more, you could have also regretted it and your goals and freedom would have ended there. So, in life, YOU must learn to do what makes you feel better or happy. Not what other ppl say... think of yourself, cherish yourself, love yourself, feel proud of yourself... you didn't kill a person, you just got rid of an embryo that would have been unhappy as an unwanted child, so you won't go to hell.
DeleteThe easy solution to not have unwanted pregnancies; keep your panties on and legs closed! Problem solved!
ReplyDeleteThat is ridiculous. All creatures have sex. ALL. It's our nature. However, not all the women want to be mothers and it was not their choice to have an uterus, ovaries and vagina. Besides that, performing a surgery is painful, risky, too. Taking contraceptive pills has many bad side effects. It sucks.
DeleteWhy don't you tell men the same thing? Keep your pants on, zipper closed and dick inside their pants?
It's easy to judge women cause your parents taught you that we are responsible for everyhthing that goes wrong and we MUST accept things as they come. But men? No. Men can be whores, bitches, and do whatever they. please and they will never be co ndemed like women. They get a woman pregnant and...if they don't want to take care of the child, they just vanish... or they just pay maintenance and that's it. They CAN go on with their happy lives as if nothing had changed. They will be able to travel, work, have another partner, have fun, have free time and enjoy their hobbies. But society says "YOU women, YOU must stay with the kids 24/7. No matter what. YOU must quit your studies, job or give up your dreams for your kid."
And then, in tbe future, many kids are ungrateful. They move out to another country or get married or live with their bf/gf and forget about their mum. Because that happens VERY often. So having kids doesn't mean they will be there for you in the future... you could be lucky or not. It's like a raffle.
My mom had an abortion, it wasnt until years later that she slipped into depression, often calling herself a murderer. Abortion is the end of a life, no matter how small. My mom went to her grave with her guilt, yhe poor soul. How my heart aches for her broken one, see it effects all of us...not just the one murdered.
ReplyDeleteI am 24 with 3 young children. I am pregnant again and I'm not sure what to do. I am married and I just a had a baby, she is 5 mths old. my husband is 26 and by no means does he make enough to support us. we do believe in God, me more so. he is still very worldly, he says we can't go through the struggle again, we could not pay our rent, car we almost go repoed. I have had a very tough upbringing, I was raised in foster care from 6 to 17, both parents in prison, split up from my sisters, been in group homes, mental ward and got emancipated when I turned 17 where I was on the streets, got picked up by a pimp, he continuously beat me and made me work on the streets and on ads, he left me broken scarred and jaded where I'm trying to heal and left me with nothing and 2 beautiful children, whom he made me work until I was 8 mths pregnant, I've been raped several times and now I'm stuck in the strip club trying to feed my babies, I have no education I didn't finish highschool bc I was homeless.....later I met my husband at his job and he didn't know I stripped until 6 months in our relationship, he is 26 and a good kid, he came from a " normal" life he don't understand me at all. he has had a mom and dad and been in the same house and school. he has a yr of college, and quit to pick up more hours at his job so I don't have to go in a stripclub as much and re live my worst moments of being touched on.and molested and raped. I'm sorry do not abort your children, their love is sincee my babies are my life line and I hate to put that much pressure on them...but please think, a little struggle is ok, it strengthens you....your bds will accept it or not, no man is worth giving up your babies. Jesus is my rock and my strength...yours too. I will pray for the many lost souls and souls of the children...please pray for me too. I'm trying to be found and renewed...trying so hard, I cry with pain and I want a way out. not suicide, just a peace of mind, the strength to overcome Satan's hold to fight and uphold in this wicked world.
ReplyDeleteI almost had an abortion. I was sitting in the waiting area signing consent forms when I came to the realization that I would not be able to pretend this baby didn't exist. I think we wind up in abortion clinics because we are on autopilot, with only one thought, which is "undo this". But abortion doesn't undo anything. It makes a mess of things and causes pain. There is no forgetting it...ever. But most women don't even realize the mistake they have made until it is too late. I guess I was lucky. I had a miscarriage to remind me what a D&C feels like. I went to sleep feeling full and I woke up feeling scraped out and empty. I knew from that experience that I would never be able to pretend this didn't happen.
ReplyDeleteSo I left the abortion clinic with my baby still alive, but I still didn't intend to keep him. I COULDNT keep that man's child. It felt like a parasite inside me. It felt like I carried the demon child of Satan himself. So I went to talk to some nuns about adoption. They were so kind. I will never forget them. They gave me the paperwork to fill out and I got started on it, but I couldn't finish.
A few months later when I was nearly 6mos pregnant, I went to my first doctors appointment. I still intended to give it up for adoption. I dreaded the thought of it being a boy, of it looking like "him". There was no way I could ever love this child. The following week I got an ultrasound. It WAS a boy. By this time, I had to laugh at the irony of it all. I felt my fear of that man fading a little to the point that I could laugh at anything was a miracle. I used to only tremble.
Not long after, I realized I couldn't pretend this baby was never born. By this time he was kicking around inside me like a ping pong ball, constantly moving. I knew I couldn't give him away. So I began preparing for a baby. I picked out baby furniture and clothes. I painted a stenciled border around his room. I named him. Soon he was born. But it took me 3 months to bind with my son. I kept feeling like the whole experience was surreal, like his real mother would be coming to get him any day. But the day he laughed, I knew he was mine.
Yes he looks like "him". It took me 2 years to see past that, to see that he was an individual, and a very wonderful person. I cannot believe I almost killed him. He is the greatest gift I have ever had, he makes me laugh. He is so funny. He makes everyone laugh. He is so compassionate. He is almost 15 years old and still kisses his mama in public. He is all boy and makes me very very proud. I look at hm and I think, how could I have even considered killing him? I cannot imagine this earth without him. He touches so many lives with his joy.
"Cling to that thought, sew-me-shut. Cling to it with all your might, since it seems to important to you." This is the most obnoxious thing I have ever read. By the way, sew-me-shut is correct. At six weeks, you see a pink/white circle, smaller than the tip of your pinky. No defined fingers and toes. Stop misleading women to push your agenda. If you are in the right, you wouldn't have to lie.
ReplyDeleteEmDog, is a person's worth dependent upon his or her size?
ReplyDeleteHaving an abortion is wrong period those who think its "Okay" your wrong thats a living being. You are murdering your own child! Just because you decided to do it without protection doesn't mean you have to punish the result to your wrong doing! They won't even grow up and go throught the things we go through now days. Stop Abortions it's wrong and we all know it! It is NOT "OKAY!"
ReplyDeleteI AM HAVING AN ABORTION AND I AM COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH MY DECISION
ReplyDeleteLadies who are with me: I encourage you to do whatever you need to do to live a healthier, richer, happier life - based solely on your own life. Don't worry about the man, God, the thing inside of you, or anyone. Just worry about YOU!
The word CHOICE is in the title of this webpage. Let women have their choice. Some of us do not want to have a baby and are perfectly fine KILLING (as you would all call it) a small compilation of cells inside our body. It is horrible women like YOU that put feelings of guilt into the minds of women who truly need an abortion. You are terrible creatures who couldn't care less about a woman's right to make her own life choices.
Stop with the critical comments; if we want an abortion NOBODY should judge us for it. It is our body, our "baby", and our life.
Get with the times ladies: not all abortions are just because we chose to have unprotected sex. Gee whiz, have you heard a little thing called RAPE? You "people" make me sick.
By the way: If you are not financially secure, giving birth to the baby will only ruin more (actual) LIVES. You and your baby, as well as any other family members will grow up in poverty and struggle. If you are young as well, you may not complete highschool (or be able to) and your education will suffer. You will then have a harder time getting a good paying job, and you AND your now LIVING child will pay the price.
One decision could change your life - FOR THE BETTER!
Well said. Thank you for being this way and defending our right to make our OWN choices. Noisy ppl are really annoying. They just talk and judge those women because they don't agree, so it means they DON'T RESPECT the others. They judge ppl cause they weren't told we all have different point of views, thoughts and personalities.
DeleteThey should learn to let others go on with their lives and decisions instead of wasting precious time critising them.
Julia says, "I AM HAVING AN ABORTION AND I AM COMPLETELY SATISFIED WITH MY DECISION."
ReplyDeleteIf you're truly that satisfied, why do you feel compelled to shout it at some strangers?
"Ladies who are with me: I encourage you to do whatever you need to do to live a healthier, richer, happier life - based solely on your own life. Don't worry about the man, God, the thing inside of you, or anyone. Just worry about YOU! "
Would you encourage such selfishness in other situations? Do you, for example, stand by Susan Smith's decision to do what she saw as best for herself, without worrying about ANYBODY but herself, including her boys?
"The word CHOICE is in the title of this webpage. Let women have their choice."
The word "REAL" is also in it. I'm stressing the reality of what is labeled "choice."
"Some of us do not want to have a baby and are perfectly fine KILLING (as you would all call it) a small compilation of cells inside our body."
If you've read the post at all, you have seen that the organism targeted for death is not "a small compilation of cells" any more than you yourself are a large compilation of cells.
"It is horrible women like YOU that put feelings of guilt into the minds of women who truly need an abortion."
I don't have to "put feelings of guilt" into their minds. If they're feeling guilty before the abortion, they'll feel guilty afterwards. That's a sign that they still have souls and the capacity for love and empathy. That's not something I think we should strive to purge from others.
"You are terrible creatures who couldn't care less about a woman's right to make her own life choices."
We're all in favor of making life choices; just ones that do not involve killing other people.
"Get with the times ladies: not all abortions are just because we chose to have unprotected sex. Gee whiz, have you heard a little thing called RAPE? You "people" make me sick."
Why do you bring this up at all? The point is whether or not it's right or wrong to kill an innocent human being, not the circumstances in which that human being came into existence. People whose fathers are horrible rat-bastards are not guilty of their fathers' crimes and should not be put to death for those crimes.
By the way: If you are not financially secure, giving birth to the baby will only ruin more (actual) LIVES. You and your baby, as well as any other family members will grow up in poverty and struggle. ...."
Isn't it better to actually help the woman to achieve financial security or to address her problems rather than just scrape her out and leave her with those problems?
"One decision could change your life - FOR THE BETTER!"
Again, is "This benefits me personally" the ultimate measure of right and wrong? If so, then why should seedy Wall Street brokers not just defraud people of money? Why should politicians refrain from taking bribes? Why not spend your life backstabbing and lying and cheating if it gets you what you want?
Do you really want to live in a world of total selfishness like the one you're telling other women to embrace?
I lost my four month old daughter 12 years ago today to SIDS..women who get abortions make me sick..unless the mother was raped,their is something horrifically wrong with the fetus,or the woman will DIE in labor,then abortion should NEVER be an option..have any of you ever heard of condoms?...or the morning after pill?..I was raped and took the morning after pill...I also have two other children,currently six weeks pregnant and have had two miscarriages..if you don't want a baby,keep your legs closed!..as far as a man MAKING you get an abortion are you kidding me?..whatever helps you sleep at night.
ReplyDeleteTo the woman that referred to her fetus as a "thing"....that"thing"is half you,and if for some reason,I couldn't get the morning after pill,I would have kept the baby,if my rape resulted in a pregnancy,and I would not have cared cared what my husband had to say about it..a lot of women can't get pregnant for some reason after an abortion,and even if I feel bad for them,I think it's karma...bottom line is if you can lie down and make a baby,you better be able to raise one .I would rather practise safe sex than murder an innocent baby..even in the case of rape,that baby is innocent and didn't ask to be created
ReplyDeleteLeah lake: are you freaking kidding me?!? Have you ever been raped??!! I'm going to go ahead and assume no because you would definitely not want your rapist's baby growing inside of you. I'm sorry for your loss but don't put that burden on other women. I don't have to "keep my legs closed" with my husband, thank you though! And not everyone who gets pregnant is reckless. I got pregnant while on birth control-never missing a pill and taking precaution with things that decrease its effectiveness-such as antibiotics. I would have more respect for "pro-lifers" if you focused your attention on kids and babies already here that are starving, abused, neglected, etc. you'll fight and protest to end abortion but once it's born, "on your own buddy!!" Cut food stamps, Medicaid, education funding, etc. but good thing you saved that mass of cells! Unless you're going to help that woman raise and pay for that child, than please go focus your attention on something more worthwhile, like helping end childhood hunger. I'm sure you all are perfect and without sin...
ReplyDeleteKatie, why do you think of a child concieved in rape as "the rapist's baby" but not the mother's baby? To me that is seeing her as less of a human being, but as merely the ground in which a man plants his seed. To appreciate her as a human being means appreciating that an assault does not reduce her to a mere vessel. She is a mother, the most important person in that child's life. A "rape exception" elevates the status of the rapist.
ReplyDeleteI also don't appreciate your strawman argument. Since you only see prolifers in an abortion discussion setting, you have no idea what other things they do in their lives.
One of the most dedicated anti-abortion activists I've ever known also does more for women and children than almost anybody else I've ever known. He and his wife have opened their home to pregnant women while they sort out their living situations (being thrown out of the house by parents, escaping an abusive relationship, homeless to start with) and have provided foster care to children whose mothers are in prison.
I am active with microfinance, clean water initiatives, the righs of the severely disabled and developmentally disabled, and obstetric fistula issues.
Other prolifers adopt kids out of foster care, run orphanages for abandoned children, adopt children with challenging special needs.
CPCs and sidewalk counselors routinely make sure that abortion-injured women get proper aftercare and find the means to pay for it.
As for the idea that opposing government programs means opposing the goals of the program, that's one I frequently run into with people on the political Left. I can best explain it with a though experiment first.
Imagine that a poor woman wants to move to California to be near family. Person A thinks it's best to buy her a plane ticket so she can fly there. Person B thinks it's better to get her car into better working order and finance a road trip. Assuming that opposition to a government program is like opposition to a program's goal is like Person A assuming that Person B doesn't want the woman to go to California. But maybe Person B is more concerned with the woman having a vehicle and transportation when she arrives, or recoginzes that a road trip is more cost-effective if she has several children, or just thinks that the drive would provide her with a chance to see the country.
Govenment programs tend to be wasteful and demeaning. Opposing them and preferring either different programs or private charity is NOT the same as not wanting children to be fed, housed, and educated!
Why do prochoicers always want to insist that if prolifers really cared about people, they'd be more selective and limited in the people they care about?
Christina: I have been raped and had an abortion due to that rape when I was 15 years old so I know first hand what goes on there. There is no way I could have associated what was growing inside of me as "my child" because it was not my choice to conceive it and it was brutal at that. I would not have been able to love it and was not about to go through the pain of being 15 and pregnant and delivering, yes-my rapist's baby, as well as trying to deal with being raped. That would have been an awful life for the both of us. I don't expect you to understand if you have never been in that situation.
ReplyDeleteAs far as pro-choicers doing other things, I have yet to meet ONE that does anything other than preach to people and protest outside of clinics. Not saying most aren't good people, just saying they like to preach. Maybe a good approach would be to teach safe sex and educate about birth control-but that program was removed from schools-must be one of the wasteful ones. Pro-choicers like to preach too-I'm just saying my healthcare decisions are mine-not yours and I get pretty offended when people start talking about rape and "what they would do if it were them."
I am a counselor specializing in trauma-specifically rape and have worked with women who chose to keep their child that was a product of their rape. I have yet to encounter such a woman capable of truly loving that child, however, they are the strongest women I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.
I do respect the fact that you don't want any abortion legal- at least you're consistent. I've always wondered how someone can pick and chose, if the argument is "a life is a life." Personally, I can't imagine forcing a 10-11 year old rape victim to carry a child due to that rape and yes, I've seen it happen. But I'm sure you will argue otherwise and if so i'd encourage you to visit a domestic violence shelter and maybe chat with a few, if you can. We will just have to agree too disagree, which is fine. The only thing is that even if abortions become illegal, they will most definitely still happen. The only difference is that many more women will die because of it so then what do we do? Because let's be realistic, teaching abstinence is never going to work.
Abstinence is stupid. Only nuns would say that. I do agree with you Katie. And sorry to hear that you went through hell due to that fucking bastard.
DeleteYou made the RIGHT CHOICE.You feel happy, relieved, and you continued with your life. Don't let anybody make you feel bad. You will feel bad just from the moment you LET the people do it so. Don't let them hurt you or make you feel as a nasty person. Don't give them that chance. Be happy, be proud, be strong.
I send you all my good vibes girl. Free your soul and always do what makes you feel good. As long as you don't hurt people who already have their feet on this planet or fetuses who already have their brain formed. That is my thought.
katiearnold, I'm sorry you went through such a difficult time. I just wish that if you felt you could not love your child because of who his or her father was you had made an adoption plan. He or she was an innocent bystander.
ReplyDeleteAnd again, of course you don't see prolifers doing other things besides protest outside abortion clinics because that's where you see them. You don't see them when they're working at a soup kitchen because you don't GO to the soup kitchen. You don't see them when they're volunteering as EMTs because you're not the one they're extricating from the wrecked car. You've never seen the cashier at the 7/11 when he is doing anything but working at the 7/11 but that doesn't mean that his entire life is the 7/11!
As for women supposedly not being able to love a child conceived in rape, here are some stories from women who kept the baby, made an adoption plan, or aborted after conceiving in rape.
There is actually an organization of pro-life women who conceived in rape; I'm trying to find it.
I like that you find the "prolife with exceptions" inconsistent. I think it's a sign of being very muddle-headed in thinking and also very ill-informed.
Respect her! You're so stubborn. Let her be whatever she wants to be. She did the right thing for her. She truly doesn't care about you nor your point of view. You have no right to judge her. You aren't a better person because you also make thousands of mistakes or things that other people would not approve.
DeleteOr would you say you're Miss Know it All or Miss Perfection?
Mother Theresa? An angel? An avenger?
She's happy NOW! She deserves it. Her child wasn't born. He/She didn't suffer. He/She didn't feel pain. He wouldn't miss being on this planet cause he was never here!
Do you remember what it feels like being an embryo of 1-3 months old? NO. You can't. Nobody can. So, he/she wasn't born but he/she will never judge her for what she did. And he didn't love her either. We don't know what love is till we are born. I say this because many naive women think of embryos or fetuses as if they were born children or adults... who think, reason, understand, laugh, get angry, etc
Other Christina,
ReplyDeleteDo you think your marriage would be strengthened by killing your child? Do you think that by having an abortion you would draw closer to your husband? Do you think your child needs to die because you and your husband are having marital difficulties?
Seek counseling about your marriage; if your marriage will be over regardless of whether you have an abortion or not (I couldn't respect or love a man who wanted me to kill our child, so even if it didn't end the marriage immediately, it would likely be the first blow in a terminal case), then why kill the baby and still end up with a broken marriage? Instead, seek to preserve your marriage, *and* keep your innocent child alive.
I'm currently in the 7th week of my second pregnancy, and I am elated. I wish I could boldly define myself as pro-choice or pro-life, but I cannot. I went through a very difficult and confusing period of my life that resulted in terminating a pregnancy. I regret that decision everyday - but I understand that irrational decisions are made and forgiven, therefore I have forgiven myself and moved on. I still pay respect to that life, knowing full well my actions (in retrospect); and these days, I believe that my living child and the next I bring into this world are proof that forgiveness is possible from *insert whichever higher power you choose*. I have some resentments, however. I wish the timing had been different. Knowing the different turns my life had taken after that time somewhat made me grateful that I did not have a child that had to go through those moments with me, but I also agree with the possibility that a child may have prevented a lot of the further irrational decisions I had made since that first pregnancy.
ReplyDeleteWhat I am ultimately attempting to say is that I would never advocate abortions; nor would I condemn a woman for making that choice. It was because of my decision I now have a stronger personal opinion. It is not an easy choice to commit to without experience.
I would tell anyone that may approach me with questions or needing advice that: this is something that has to be their choice, it needs to be a heavily informed choice, and she needs to be prepared to live with that choice for the rest of her life because it never, ever leaves you.
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ReplyDeleteI have a testimony to share,,My Name is Mrs Georgina Alexander am from the United State am now 54years old Am a Medical doctor in California,I married for about 24years ago without any child then me and my husband go for an adoption of 2kids male/female.
ReplyDeleteLast years something wonderful and gracious happened to me i came across this witch doctor in the internet that promise to help me get pregnant which i totally disagree,,,How can i be pregnant looking my age he ask me not to worry that he only specialize on pregnancy no other. That after the job has been completed there is no any side effect,that was how he told me what to do which i did, could you believe i miss my periodical time that same Month and i was pregnant.Today am now the happiest woman on Earth,,While am i testify to this site i know there are a lot of people that are in this kind of trouble some will decide to commit suicide.
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Nice Info! There are many people who wish to get the abortion through abortion pills which is one of the safe method and the nice thing is that it is also available at online pharmacies.
ReplyDeleteOnline Pharmacy Store in USA | Mifeprex Buy Online
unplanned pregnancy is a problem for both
ReplyDeleteI understand and support choice. I was just informed that my first grandchild is in stage two today of being aborted at 6 weeks... Too late to talk. I tell you... I am broken hearted. I wish they would have shared. I was 18 when I had my baby and yes, I struggled,but I wouldn't have changed it for the world and thankful too as I cannot conceive anymore. My child is just shy of 24...I am so sad that this baby cannot be enjoyed by anyone. I still love and support them But my heart aches. I would have helped. All I can say is Please take time to talk it through before making this choice. You are never alone!And you don't know what the future May hold. It could be good.
ReplyDeleteabortion is such an ugly topic, the whole idea of a person been formed in side another is beautiful, what destroys the beautifulness of this is when the baby in not wanted.
ReplyDeleteabortion is a sin
ReplyDeleteFornication, lying, eating shitty food and other common things are sins, too. So?
DeleteWhere can I get help for pregnant women
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI was also in the same situation. Mine was an unplanned pregnancy
ReplyDeleteIf one doesn't want to fall pregnant, why not protect oneself?
ReplyDeleteIf you are able to get pregnant then you should realise what happens when a man injects his seed into a vagina.
People never learn or maybe condoms are too expensive?
Its horrible to read what you uneducated people write. An embryo is NOT a "baby". It cant breath, think, feeel - it cant sustain life outside the womb. It is not even developed. It is in no way comparable with a living, breathing, eating smiling baby. Thats just used as an argument to make women feel guilty over taking charge over their own lives and preventing them from making this hard decision.
ReplyDeleteRaising a child is the most important task we have as humans. One should be READY for it; mentally, ecnonomically and PLAN your life around it. You should have a stable social network around you. The potential child should be WANTED.
By both parents. Many studies show that adopted children suffer from mental problems.
To have an abortion is sometimes the most mature and responsible choice you CAN make. Not be ruled by emotions. That does not mean that an abortion is easy, fun or pleasant.
And; abortion ARE performed in all the world, wether forbidden or not. The difference is that in places where forbidden - the women die more often from complications. Is that the kind of society we want?
EXACTLY! Smart!
DeleteThe most mature and responsible choice you CAN make is to make your thighs closed if you are a woman, or at least use contraceptives, the same applies to a man, if you can't use a condom, don't stick it in!!!!
ReplyDeleteNo matter how obvious it is people have sex for fun forgetting it can create a child. When it comes to an abortion, it is odd logic to claim that aborting a child is fine because it cannot survive outside the womb and has not thinking, emotions, etc. With this kind of logic we should "abort" all that cannot manage on their own, who are mentally impaired, and so on.
Of course, why would anyone deny it is beyond me, a fetus is a child in making, just a stage of one's development, a life. On the other hand, in the nature life is not precious, it creates any number of lives. Our assumption that human life is holy is a misconception, in the not so long past people produced many kids because only a few would survive, making kids is easy. Aborting fetuses is simply about convenience, nothing else, a lazy way of avoiding responsibility for one's actions,
Have unprotected sex, enjoy it, abort the fetus, suffer the psychological and physical consequences of abortion.
Of course humans have sex for fun! What the hell did you think we were? Rabbits?
DeleteSex is great. Sex is not bad at all and enjoying it has nothing wrong. It's absolutely natural. Didn't you know that? Are you a nun or priest or muslim?
Everybody has sex. You could have safe sex 95% of the times in your whole life, and just because you forgot the pill one day or you didn't use the condom one night, it doesn't make you an idiot and irresponsible person. It makes you human actually. Or what? Are you perfect?
Anyway, other women have been raped and others had mishaps during intercourse like the condom was torn or loose. I don't know... many things could happen.
Whatever the reason is, it's up to the woman if she wants to continue with the pregnancy or put an end. It's her life, her decision. Her body, her embryo. Got it?
ReplyDeleteunplanned pregnancy and abortion are common now a days
Are there any good solutions for unplanned pregnancy
ReplyDeleteI have a one year old i took a pregnancy test last night and it came out positive. It scares me because i know im not ready for another child and the father and i are no longer together. I dont care that im not with him because my son has his family regardless i just dont know how i will manage a two year old and a new born im only 23 years old work full time and am a full time student. I was considering getting an abortion but who a my to decide who gets to live and who doesnt at this very moment i will like to hear similar stories or advice that will help me make the right decision i am very afraid and dont know what to do
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteI'm new here and I want your opinion. I'm pregnant in 12 weeks. At 6 weeks I discovered that my baby's heart stoped. All doctors have recomemnded chirurgical abortion. We didn't want to do this ( I'm married for a couple of years). I want to have natural abortion. When that will happen? How long I have to wait? I mention I have a dead baby inside for 6 weeks. I don't have any symptom, no feber, no contractions, only a little brown vaginal discharge.
Does anyone went through this? If the answer is yes, how long did you wait and which are the symptoms?
Waiting for your response
lory
Hi, Lory.
ReplyDeleteI recommend contacting a local pregnancy resource center. They can help you get hooked up with a doctor who will provide appropriate care for you. Google "Pregnancy Centers Online" to find one near you.
I'd defy you to see any apple structures in a bowl of apple sauce. That doesn't mean that the apples didn't exist.
ReplyDeleteI have 4 children already, ages 15, 10, 6 and 5. I was in a codependent mentally abusive relationship for 7 years that I just got out of. We separated over a year ago but went back and forth for months and I am barely now getting to the point where I know I no longer want to be with this man. He has mental and drug issues that he refuses to seek help for and I can no longer support and subject myself and my kids to his erratic behavior. I am slowly getting myself back, establishing my relationships with my family. I even landed a dream job a month ago. Yesterday I found out that I am approximately 6 weeks pregnant. I am worried about what my family will say..especially my mother since she is the main one who is helping me climb out of the hole I dug myself into during my relationship with him. I am barely trying get my head above water financially and I am also concerned that my ex will try to use this as an "in" back into my life. Right now he sees the kids occasionally and helps me financially when he can...that's the most I can depend on him for. I am just worried about losing all the progress I've made in these few short months. I am seriously considering not telling anyone and just having an abortion. I have never agreed with it as a personal choice, but at this point in my life I just don't know what else to do.
ReplyDeleteIsabel G, please locate your local pregnancy resource center. They will give you help and support and will offer follow up for typically two years after your baby is born. Contrary to what the abortion lobby wants you to believe, you are NOT alone.
ReplyDeleteMel, are you having an argument with yourself? I'm not seeing what it is you're responding to.
ReplyDeleteI was the result of an unplanned pregnancy. I wish my mother had access to safe legal abortion. The difference in how I felt growing up beside my very planned, older brother, and in how I was treated, made me swear to never put a child of mine through that. My parents loved me and I them., but that didn’t stop my profound unhappiness and self-hatred growing up. The disparate treatment between me and my planned brother - parents sent him to college, refused to send me, even though I was much better student, often spoke of me as their “oops child”, loved to tell how I only existed because they drank too much alcohol that night, well, let’s just say you do the child zero favors by not aborting.
ReplyDeleteThese pictures, and my own miscarriage, show that a fetus at the time of most abortions looks like a tadpole, not remotely human.