Some Tiller fans are confusing recognizing the evil that he did with celebrating his murder.
But I bet I can think of an example of of Tiller's supporters recognizing the evil somebody did, while not wishing them dead.
Every time a murderer is executed.
You can hate, for example, what Ted Bundy did to Kimberly Leach, the Chi Omega sisters, and his other victims, and still not have wanted to see him fry.
You can hate what he did, in fact, and actually be sorry and upset that he fried.
Not because you thought he'd done no evil, but because you thought killing him was to indulge in that same evil.
THAT is how prolifers can despise what Tiller did, and still not wish to see him murdered.
Can you understand that?
When I read that Tiller had been gunned down, I got that same sort of empty, sickened, sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach, the way I feel when I hear of any other murder or untimely death -- from the victims of Hurricane Katrina or the tsunami in Asia to Jeffrey Dahmer being murdered in prison. Then reading your posts made it really sink in what this actually means for us pro-lifers and the pro-life movement. Although Tiller won't be the one to kill babies, the same babies will still end up dead and dismembered, because someone else will step up to fill his place.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it blows.
ReplyDeleteWhat really pisses me off is that nobody's released any word on the motives, but all the abortion advocates and even some of the prolifers are attributing the motive to antiabortion sentiment. We have no idea right now.
Some details are starting to trickle out about the suspect in custody:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/05/suspect_in_custody.php
still preliminary of course.
Tlaloc,
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that your name is the name of an Aztec god that demanded child sacrifices. Do you agree with the killing of young children, like you agree with the killing of the preborn?
Whoever he was, unless he was the distraught parent of an injured patient (and who as such might have been unhinged by grief and thus not as morally culpable), I just want to kick his sorry ass from one end of Kansas to the other.
ReplyDeleteThat moron shooter did more with one bullet to promote Tiller's cause than Tiller himself did in 35 years as a practicing abortionist and hardcore proabortion political activist.
Sigh. It's so freaking demoralizing.
I subscribe to what is known as a Consistent Life Ethic. Basically any time there's a decision to be made, if there is a pro-life side to it, I take that one.
ReplyDeleteThat means I'm anti-abortion, anti-capital punishment, anti-pollution, mostly anti-war, and so on.
Just to clarify, in case any particular pro-choicers don't get it: That also makes me anti-gunning-people-down-in-the-church-lobby-on-Sunday-morning.
I hope that that helps.
"Do you agree with the killing of young children, like you agree with the killing of the preborn?"
ReplyDeleteGeeze, doesn't everybody?
look, I use the name Tlaloc for a few different reasons:
1) I had an early interest in the Aztecs.
2) most of the Aztec god's names were too long to be accepted as handles by early forums and such (think Quetzalcaotl or huitzilipochtli).
3) my home town is very rainy.
Tlaloc,
ReplyDeleteI just find it interesting that you take the name of a bloodthirsty god who demanded infant sacrifices, for your screen name on an abortion blog. Fitting, in a sick way.
Oh, and I have met people who do believe that since abortion is legal and justifiable in their minds, then so should the killing of infants, perhaps up until the age of toddlerhood. I think Peter Singer is one of those. Basically, if it is okay to kill a baby before birth because it might interfere with the parents' plans or lifestyle or some other selfish reason, then they should be able to kill their children after birth for the same reasons, up until some nebulously defined age of "self-awareness."
ReplyDeleteSince meeting these people, I do like to find out whether other abortion proponents have taken the next logical step after abortion.
Man, Christina, if you think the pro-choicers over here are bad, you ought to be seeing how they're treating pro-lifer Suzanne over at Big Blue Wave Canada...
ReplyDelete*Shakes head* Man, it's not a good time to be self-identified as a pro-lifer. There's a lot of pro-choice outrage right now and some pretty serious threats towards anyone pro-life being made by activists online.
ReplyDelete"I just find it interesting that you take the name of a bloodthirsty god who demanded infant sacrifices, for your screen name on an abortion blog. Fitting, in a sick way."
ReplyDeleteYou shouldn't flatter yourself. I've used this name since the late 90s for most of my internet handles and all of them that relate to politics.
"Oh, and I have met people who do believe that since abortion is legal and justifiable in their minds, then so should the killing of infants"
I don't believe you.
I don't believe you.Look up the work and writings of Peter Singer, Tlaloc. He's a good starting point for denying infants - born infants - protection of law up until the age of one (while saying monkeys should be protected in the same manner as humans).
ReplyDeleteI think you are badly misreading Singer's academic arguments.
ReplyDelete>"Oh, and I have met people who do believe that since abortion is legal and justifiable in their minds, then so should the killing of infants"
ReplyDelete>I don't believe you.
Here is the long, drawn-out comment-conversation I had on a blog, with someone named "Joshua". But you don't have to look very far to see him say it -- he says it in his first comment, which is the second comment on the blog. And he cites Singer, as well, which is how I came to be acquainted with his name. I won't recount Joshua's arguments, since you can go read them yourself, but he says he bases his arguments on what Singer has said.
Surely you don't take everyone on the internet at face value. There are plenty of people willing to say whatever they think will wind you up, thanks in part to the anonymity of the internet.
ReplyDeleteIn fact there were some interesting studies done by Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center towards the beginning of the internet as a social medium, cataloging various behavioral modes that occur frequently. What we commonly call 'trolling' or in online games 'griefing' is a manifestation of one of those modes.
Yeah, I really think that this Joshua spends hours and hours of his time writing blog posts and comments just for the kicks of irritating people. Not. Did you look at his blog? Does that look like a troll to you? Are you a troll? Am I a troll? Why do you think that I am not a troll? Why do I think you are not a troll? Sure some people do stuff just for kicks, but it gets old fast.
ReplyDelete"Yeah, I really think that this Joshua spends hours and hours of his time writing blog posts and comments just for the kicks of irritating people. Not."
ReplyDeleteYou'd be amazed. I've been involved in an online community in which we had people fake their own deaths (including providing fake obituaries through a sock puppet account. Weird stuff.
"Did you look at his blog?"
Nope.