OC, our resident troll, took umbrage at the idea that an abortion mill ought to provide actual COUNSELING to get to the heart of the reason the woman was there. Abortion clinics are there, he reminded us, TO DO ABORTIONS. Period. Not to "fix the patient's love life" (i.e. find out if she's in an abusive relationship and refer her for help if she is.)
Compare the "take a number, get scraped, go home" routine of a typical abortion mill with the care a stranger on the sidewalk will provide for free.
Prolifers will spend the time with the woman, to understand her circumstances and the dynamics that led her to the abortionclinic door. They'll help her address those problems.
They don't take her money, kill her baby, and send her home with a bottle of antibiotics and a bag of condoms.
Which side actually INVESTS MORE in the woman?
And which side protects the woman from undesired labor-and-delivery?
ReplyDeleteChildbirth is a big, painful, expensive, dangerous medical/surgical trauma. You should not undergo it unless you strongly want a baby.
Only in developing countries is childbirth dangerous. In the US, not so.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, in other countries childbirth is dangerous because of lack of medical treatment and technology.
Being that abortion is dangerous in even this country, women die in developing countries from abortion even more frequently. That's why Mauritius made abortion illegal. That's why Chile made it illegal. Those that made abortion legal in order to lower maternal mortality, such as Ethiopia and South Africa, have only seen it rise drastically.
Furthermore, in other countries childbirth is dangerous because of lack of medical treatment and technology.
ReplyDeletePregnancy and childbirth are dangerous and often have a high mortality rate in 3rd world countries due to a lack of prenatal care, poor maternal health (due to a lack of of access to clean water and adequite nutrition), as well as a lack of adequite medical care and treatment and I fail to see how pushing condoms and abortion access is going to address any of these underlying problems.
WRONG, MoonChild. Childbirth is dangerous everywhere. In the developed world we have learned how to DEAL with the dangers (at high cost) but it's still dangerous.
ReplyDeleteIt's like diving down a flight of stairs. Sure, you can put on protective gear and have a team of trauma surgeons standing by to help you, but it's still inherently dangerous.
OC, the maternal mortality in 2004 was 13 per 100,000. The car accident morality was 14.63. I use 2004 because it is the last date I saw for maternal mortality.
ReplyDeleteNote that the motor vehicle mortality included everyone, not just registered or licensed drivers.
Child birth is less dangerous than automotive transportation. Spare me the fear mongering.
Also, the single biggest cause of death for pregnant/postnatal women is murder. See, some men aren't too happy when their girlfriends wont kill the baby, so they take them both out.
Lauren, childbirth is still dangerous. The numbers are good because we spend lots of money and manpower DEALING with the dangers. But that doesn't mean it's not dangerous. It's INHERENTLY dangerous. It's like space flight, or heart-surgery. Inherently dangerous, but because we spend all this money we can DEAL WITH the dangers.
ReplyDeleteAnd men kill women for HAVING abortions more or less as frequently as they kill them for NOT having them. "You killed my baby so I'm gonna kill you!"
OC, so what are you suggesting with your fearmongering? That we discourage women from becoming pregnant and having babies? That family planning clinics should be able to provide misleading, manipulative, and one-sided information to women, telling them that childbirth is dangerous and having an abortion is safer than childbirth, all the while withholding abortion's complication and risks or while operating as a shady clinic.
ReplyDeleteANY surgery is dangerous. Heck, just stepping out of bed in the morning is INHERENTLY dangerous.
ReplyDeleteHowever, we have ways of dealing with the dangers of childbirth here in the US, so the danger is near none - not absolutely, but near. Like that mother and her newborn baby who died at Christmas - and then both came back to life. Like I said, the only places you really have to worry about dying in childbirth are in developing countries where they don't have the medical advancements and technology that we do. Childbirth is natural. We women were made to bear children. Telling us that there's a high chance that we'll die doing something our bodies were MADE to do, and promoting abortion instead, only exposes what lengths you'll go to in order to promote abortion to line your pockets with riches.
Moon, what's really inexcusable is the promotion of abortion as a safety strategy when:
ReplyDelete1. Women are having abortions for social reasons, not health reasons, so it's irrelevant.
2. From a public health standpoint, if you want to reduce maternal deaths you focus on nutrition, sanitation, and a basic healthcare infrastructure, none of which are produced by promoting abortion.
OC, it doesn't matter if it is "inherently risky" the risks are managed at an acceptable level. It is safer to birth a child in this country than get into your car.
ReplyDeleteAs for your claim that men murder their gf's for having abortion, pehaps you can find a case or two, but it does not happen with anywhere near the frequency as men who murder their gf's because they won't abort. In fact, a quick google search didn't pull up a single instance of a woman being murdered after having an abortion, but it sure did pull up a lot of stories about a man murdering or trying to murder his pregnant gf, their child, or both.