Friday, July 02, 2010

Very crass and crude and flippant and vulgar -- but he nailed it.

He speaks truths, such as:

I love going to abortion rallies to pick up women. 'Cause you know they f*****. You ain't gonna find a bunch of virgins at the abortion rally!

A friend of mine told me about the day he and some buddies were strolling through DC and stumbled onto an abortion rally. Their reaction? Pay dirt! Women that would put out and were highly unlikely to come looking for child support later. Pro-abortion rallies are a dream come true for men just looking for a quick lay.

Ah, the abortion issue, man! It's a woman's issue. A woman get pregnant, she don't wanna hear s**t from the man. .... Unless she decides to have the baby, then she's like, "Where my check?"

No comment.

When a woman gets pregnant, it's a choice between the woman, and her girl friends.

Which is true. And has always been. Nancy Howell Lee's research into criminal abortions even found that the main predictor of whether a woman would seek out an illegal abortion in pre-Roe days was what she perceived to be the normative choice for her peers. So much for how abortion is a sign that the woman is free-thinking and independent.

A woman get pregnant, her and her girl friends get together, and they have a little abortion tribunal, and they vote on the baby like it's Survivor. .... And that's how life is decided in America.

Note how he acknowledges that everybody knows that it's a baby, and a baby's life, that's being discussed up or down.

Guess what, guys? If you suggest abortion, and then she has the baby, when that kid's about five, six years old, he gone be cursing your ass out. You say, "Hey, what's up, Little Man? How you doing, man?" "I'm ALIVE! That's how the f** I'm doing! You wanted me dead, huh, biatch? I'm ALIVE, m-fer. I should bust a cap on your ass!"

And everybody laughs.

Which is sad.


L. said...

"Pro-abortion women are a dream come true for men just looking for a quick lay."

Gee, Christina, thanks.....

Christina Dunigan said...

L, I can guarantee, when a woman announces she's prochoice, men think, "Cool! She puts out and if I knock her up she'll scrape it out! Break me off a piece of that!" It might not be TRUE of you, but that's the message you're putting out. Chris Rock made it VERY clear why a lot of men support abortion and like prochoice women. What he spoke was how men think. Like it or lump it.

Lilliput said...

Christina seriously you can't paint all men with the same paintbrush. Yes there are some wankers but we don't want them to spread their genepool anyway. Yes there are women who act stupidly when it comes to men but we don't want them breeding either.

Why are u so interested in stopping people havving sex - I'd rather they were doing that then killing each other. What is it with u and people's bedrooms!

Katie said...

Again with the "Christina doesn't want anyone to have sex!" bit? I thought pro-lifers wanted to force all women to be incubators? Which is it??

Ah and I like the idea that if a child's parent is "unworthy" the *child* doesn't deserve to live. Sounds quite a bit like eugenics, but then I suppose that's not surprising.

L. said...

"L, I can guarantee, when a woman announces she's prochoice, men think, 'Cool! She puts out and if I knock her up she'll scrape it out! Break me off a piece of that!'"

So.... when I say I'm prochoice, what I am really saying is that I am a slut, who puts out? When I say I want to be able to make medical decisions about my body, what I am really saying is, "Come on guys, knock me up and I'll scrape it out?"

I repeat, gee, thanks.

I don't go around saying, "I can guarantee, when a woman announces she's prolife, men think, 'Oh, a challenge! But the sex will be better because it's sinful and dirty! And if I knock her up, I'll just run!"

I'm sure there are plenty of promiscuous prochoice woman (and I personally know plenty of promiscuous prolife women), and we all know the world has no shoartage of men who think with their dicks. You can certainly argue, as many do, that the legality of abortion enables promiscuity -- but you would have a harder time arguing that it causes it.

And to paint ALL pro-choice women as promiscuous is offensive.

Chris Rock is an entertainer. You want people to take your message seriously. Or so I thought.

Rupert said...

GG, I know of men who will 'target' good, church-going girls because they think they are gullible and innocent. They can be easily seduced. And if the outcome is bad, they can leave them for thier church to take care of.

Men are men, many are good, some are bad, a few are really bad. But there are also predatory women who do damage in their own way.

It's called the human condition.

Christina Dunigan said...

Lil, how can you look at the AIDS epidemic, at the women dying from cervical cancer caused by the HPV they picked up form multiple sex partners, at the women murdered by men pissed off that they won't abort, and pretend that people who practice indiscriminate sex aren't killing each other? Not to mention the children that are routinely aborted because they get in the way of indiscriminate sex. Doesn't it strike you as in any way wrong that people are willing to spread deadly diseases and kill their own children in exchange for a roll in the hay?

L., I didn't say that being prochoice meant that a woman is a slut. I said that the message she's giving men is "I'm sexually available and willing to scrape it out." If there weren't an abundance of men who saw it that way, Chris Rock wouldn't have gotten such a huge laugh. And statistically, Chris Rock is right. Which group -- prolife or prochoice -- is a man going to troll in if he's looking for a quick, easy lay?

Rupert, I know there are men who target Christian girls, both with the scenario you describe and in the egotistical scenario of men who relish the challenge and want to see if they can get a woman to betray God for them. But the guys looking for a fast, easy lay that they can walk away from in the morning are going to go trolling at NARAL rallies, not Michael W. Smith concerts.

L. said...

Christina, I myself would be very "willing to scrape it out," if my contraception were to fail.

But I am NOT sexually available to anyone but my husband.

The fact that you are extrapoliating the words of a comedian into a general truth equating the two -- that an individual who is pro-abortion rights is always sending a message of sexual availability -- is deeply offensive.

And I amazed that you don't understand this.

Christina Dunigan said...

L, let's try it another way.

If a woman is dressed like a hooker from central casting, odds are that men are going to perceive her as far more sexually available than a woman dressed like she's Amish, right? Maybe the hooker-dressed woman is a very chaste woman, and maybe the woman who looks Amish is a total tramp. But the MESSAGES they're sending with their dress are:

Hooker clothes: Easy lay.

Amish clothes: No way.

The MESSAGE may be totally inaccurate, but it's still being read that way.

A "prochoice" t-shirt is, like the hooker garb, going to give men who like Chris Rock the impression that you're an easy lay. They might be wrong in your case, but that's still how they're interpreting the t-shirt. Why? Because their experience bears it out. They ARE more likely to score with the NARAL chick than they are with the woman who has a Bible verse on her shirt.

Yeah, you're not INTENDING to send that message. You're INTENDING to say "I respect women's bodily autonomy in abortion matters". But what guys who laugh at Chris Rock are HEARING is "Odds are good you'll score with me."

And that is the reality. If it wasn't, Rock's routine would have fallen totally flat.

L. said...

It was not Chris Rock who said, "Pro-abortion women are a dream come true for men just looking for a quick lay" -- it was you who said that, Christina.

He is, I repeat, an entertainer. To take his purposely hyperbolic statements and proclaim that they express the ultimate truth when it comes to prochoicers and sexual availability -- that's not Chris Rock, that's YOU.

Women who have abortions by definition are not virgins -- I get that. But to claim that the pro-choice view by definition sends a message of sexual availibility is every bit as offensive as the views of pro-life people who think that every unmarried woman facing a crisis pregnancy is a whore who should have kept her legs shut.

Christina Dunigan said...

Fine, L, we'll change it to "pro-abortion RALLIES are a dream come true for men just looking for a quick lay," since there ARE women there they won't score with.

Rupert said...

GG, the attitude you have displayed here is the sort of attitude which encourages men, and patriarchal elements of society, to say 'she asked for it, look at her'.

Your claim that women at pro-choice rallies are a greater target is completely without evidence and , as L says, based on a comedians gag. I could probably find similar comedic skits regarding all sorts of groups of people.

As an aside, I feel that men who target 'christian' girls may do so because they feel there will be less pressure to 'perform' to a standard that includes pleasure for the woman.

As another aside, I eat at restaurants a fair bit and am aware that that industry is pretty rife with 'activity'. What are your thoughts? Do you eat out much?

L. said...

I think there are two unrelated thoughts here.

You say, "L, I can guarantee, when a woman announces she's prochoice, men think, "Cool! She puts out and if I knock her up she'll scrape it out! Break me off a piece of that!"

I think it's fair to say that men can logically conclude that if a pro-choice woman gets knocked up, she will have fewer qualms about "scraping it out." On the second part of your assumption, we agree.

But not on the first part -- there is no logical reason for anyone to assume that a woman is more likely to "put out" simply because she's pro-choice.

You can make a separate arguement that many pro-life women are Christians and abstain from sex because of their religious beliefs, and pro-choice people are less likely to have such religious beliefs and therefore some of them might be more open to casual sex. That is far from saying that all pro-choice people "put out," or that a pro-choice message always implies sexual availability.

To say so comes dangerously close to stating that it's simply impossible for a woman to be pro-choice without conveying the message that she's a slut. I could be wrong, but I doubt this is what you want to say.

Christina Dunigan said...

Y'all have GOT to be kidding! Even the SCOTUS, in PP v. Casey, noted that people want abortion around because it facilitates their sex lives!

There IS a statistical correlation between the embrace of "sexual liberation" and support for abortion, and between sexual conservatism and opposition to abortion. Prochoice women (and men) DO take a more causal attitude toward sex than prolife women (and men). Men ARE more likely to score with a woman they pick up at a proabortion rally than at a prolife rally, because one of the reasons people become "prochoice" in the first place is because they don't want babies ruining their sex lives.

I'll start collecting links. But you have to be totally clueless to think there is no correlation between where people stand on abortion and where they stand on sexual morality.

Christina Dunigan said...

I just did a Google search, "abortion and sexual liberation" --

Sexual Revolution: "Sexual liberalisation heralded a new ethos in experimenting with open sex in and outside of marriage,[3] contraception and the pill, public nudity, and legalization of abortion."

The State, Sexuality & Reproductive Freedom : "Birth control and abortion services, widely available without age or marital restrictions, have helped to make the young, white woman's sexuality visible, thereby undermining historical race and class stereotypes of "nice girls" and "bad girls." The clinic represents the existence of her sexual identity independent of marriage, of paternal authority, perhaps of men; and so in a sense it connotes (white) feminism."

Search for abortion and sexual freedom:

Abortion and Contraception: A Radical Lesbian Perspective: "The issue of abortion and contraception seems to be a straightforward one for most feminists. They are considered to be a fundamental right, and access to safe, legal and affordable contraception and abortion on demand is said to be necessary for women’s sexual freedom."

Too tired to look for more right now.

L. said...

Do you really think there's no different in saying, "correlation between where people stand on abortion and where they stand on sexual morality" (which I agreed with) and saying "pro-abortion women are a dream come true for men just looking for a quick lay?"

So maybe you ARE really trying to say that it's impossible for a woman to say she supports abortion rights without also implying that she's a slut.

Christina Dunigan said...

L, I changed it to "prochoice rallies" -- that he's certainly more LIKELY to hit pay dirt there, but that there are prochoice women who aren't easy.