Thursday, September 24, 2009

ACORN rule may defund Planned Parenthood

ACORN Rule May Trap Defense Contractors in Defunding Web

The language of the motion that applies to "any organization that has been indicted for a violation of any federal or state law" when it comes to lobbying or campaign finances. It also excludes "any organization that has filed a fraudulent form with any federal or state regulatory agency."

Frankly I think the language needs to indicate that any organization that has been indicted or has filed fraudulent forms with regulatory agencies will need to be carefully vetted and decisions made about Federal funds in a thorough and transparent manner. After all, you can get indicted based just on allegations. You can also get charges dropped because of political connections. An indictment isn't proof of guilt, and dropped charges aren't proof of innocence. Also, a vendor might be the only available vendor for something vital to national security, and also be so humongous that the guilt of a manager in Seattle ought not to reflect on the character of a manager in Pensacola.

But it sure would be sweet to see PP go down in screaming flames at last.


OperationCounterstrike said...

Yeah, you just wait a while. This will bite conservatives and right-to-lifers in the ass, hard.

Soon this rule will be used to de-fund CPCs, and all kinds of corrupt conservative organizations, and, as you say, maybe even the Department of Defense. Even if DoD avoids getting hit, defense contractors will get clobbered.

I would hold off a while before you open the champagne.

Foxfier, formerly Sailorette said...

...The DOD isn't an "organization," it's a department of the gov't.

It probably won't stand if it's broad enough that being accused would remove funding.

SegaMon said...

Wait a minute... how much money do crisis pregnancy centers get from the federal government, OC? If they do get anything, I doubt the amount is as much as Planned Parenthood anyways...

"Between 2001 and 2006, over $60 million in federal funds were given to crisis pregnancy centers." This is according to the Washington Post.

In fiscal year 2008 Planned Parenthood alone received around 350 million dollars in government grants and contracts. This is according to Planned Parenthood's own annual report.

$12 million per year for CPCs vs $350 million per year for PP...

I think that if both got their funding cut from the government that it would be PP that would be hardest hit, no doubt.

OperationCounterstrike said...

The problem with CPC, the reason they should not get government money, is: they do not operate under a professional licence. Therefore, they are LEGALLY ALLOWED to say ANYTHING THEY WANT to people who come to them for advice. It would be LEGAL even if they were to deliberately lie about medical questions.

Am I the only one who thinks this is dangerous? Abortion clinics must answer to government inspectors. What control do we have over CPC? None whatsoever. For all we know, they could be preaching neo-nazism or calling for revolution and establishment of an all-Christian government, and it would be perfectly legal.

SegaMon said...

lol @ OC.

I would like to have government money out of as many things as possible. Thus, I'm not against taking away federal funds away from CPCs.

You claim that Planned Parenthood is underneath the extremely watchful eye of the government? Then how come there are tons of tapes from Planned Parenthood clinics that clearly show statutory rape cases being covered up? You may not believe it, but Planned Parenthood says what they want to whomever they want without any regard to the government.

Planned Parenthood is NOT a government agency and has a tremendous amount of freedom to say and do whatever they want within the constraints of the law. CPCs are allowed to operate in the same way. Both are NOT government agencies.

So, will you answer me? You love to change subjects! However, you main topic was the CPCs get a whole butt load of money from the government. I proved the contrary but you have made no comment regarding this fact.

GrannyGrump said...

Tell you what, SoMG. You say CPCs are ever so dangerous. Can you name ONE WOMAN who has died from taking their advice? As compared to, say, women who die because they trust those fine medical professionals at abortion facilities.

If childbirth is so much more deadly than abortion, given how many more CPCs there are than abortion clinics, they should be by your reckoning leaving trails of dead women everywhere. In this litigious society, surely they've been sued for talking women out of all those medically necessary abortions.

Come on. Name one.

OperationCounterstrike said...

Christina, even if women DID die of CPC's advice, it would be impossible to sue CPC. Since they are not licenced and do not charge a fee, they are NOT RESPONSIBLE for the outcome of their activity. (I thought I had already made this clear....)

SegaMon, PP is bound by all the same medical regulations as any other medical-care provider. If you go into any PP, you will see their licence displayed. If they were to lie to patients about medical questions, that licence would be yanked before you could say "rape me please".

If any of those "statutory rape" cases could be PROVEN, then PP would get punished. The fact is, Lila Rose won't release her COMPLETE videotapes; only the versions she has edited. That's not evidence.

And the one big case turned out to be a rogue employee exceeding her duties (she was not authorized to give out ANY advice) and that employee was promptly fired.

Foxfier, formerly Sailorette said...

That doesn't pass the smell test, as unpaid non-lawyers can be sued for giving legal advice-- even if they never represent themselves as legal experts.

Lawyers giving advice without being paid can also be sued, as can doctors.

Foxfier, formerly Sailorette said...

Oh, incidentally? The multiple video and cassette taped instances where a girl *posed* as a victim of sexual abuse by an adult is far from the only instance-- actual little girls who were raped have been left to hang by PP.

11 year old by 17 year old

relocation of worker who didn't report rape of a girl by her father

Alabama AG requesting one of those videos you dislike so much

13 year old who ended up having TWO abortions at PP clinics while being raped by her 23 year old foster brother

GrannyGrump said...

SoMG, can you provide evidence that you can't sure an agency that doesn't charge you for their services? And even if nobody SUED, surely somebody would go to their congresscritter saying, "Shut this place down! They killed my daughter!"

And look at all the mileage the abortion lobby has gotten out of Becky Bell. There was no lawsuit there. If there was a corpse they could lay on a CPC's doorstep, they'd have dragged it out by now.

OperationCounterstrike said...

Foxfier, you wrote: "Lawyers giving advice without being paid can also be sued, as can doctors."

Yes, that's because lawyers and doctors operate under professional licences, even when they operate pro-bono (for free). The licence makes them legally responsible even with no fee.

If there were DOCTORS at CPC, and they lied, then yes they could be sued for violating their professional licences. The people at CPC are NOT doctors, and do NOT operate under professional licence, so they can't be sued.

Christina, you wrote: "SoMG, can you provide evidence that you can't sure an agency that doesn't charge you for their services? "

As I said above, you CAN sue them IF they operate under a professional licence and violate the terms of that licence. If you mean, can I offer evidence that an organization which does not charge a fee NOR operate under a licence cannot be sued, then yes I can: the evidence is the First Amendment to the US Constitution.

You can't sue a church for giving you advice which turns out badly, and you can't sue your grandma if she gives you advice which turns out badly, and I can't sue you if I take the advice on your blog and it turns out badly, and you can't sue CPCs. All for the same reason: No licence + no fee = no legal responsibility = no lawsuit.

Sooner or later someone will be pulling Lila-Rose tricks on CPCs. I myself am planning to get together with a young female friend (or maybe a client--among my several professions I am a high-end math-and-science tutor and corruptor-of-youth in the tradition of Socrates and Seneca), go into a CPC (yes there are some CPCs in NYC), and pose as an illegal couple, and explain to them that we need their help concealing our pregnancy or the girl's parents will make her abort it. We'll see whether they help me conceal the pretend-crime in order to prevent an abortion, or whether they call the cops as they should, knowing that doing so will cause an abortion. Stay tuned to my blog....

OperationCounterstrike said...

Oh, by the way, I am no longer calling myself "SoMG". I never really should have, because MG is not dead yet. If I'm gonna be "Spirit of" someone, it should be Morris Fishbein (google him). But my screen names now include "OC" (for operation counterstrike), "Singing Zombie", and "The Stinky Swede".

Foxfier, formerly Sailorette said...

I notice you ignored the fact that those who are not operating under license are also able to be sued.

The people at CPC are NOT doctors, and do NOT operate under professional licence, so they can't be sued.

Absolutely untrue.
ANYONE whose actions or advice result in harm-- even only emotional distress!-- can be sued.

OperationCounterstrike said...

Foxfier, thank you for the correction. Of course, anyone in USA can sue anyone for anything so long as you don't violate a law against frivolous suits.

When I write "sue", I mean "sue, and have a greater-than-infinitesimal likelyhood of winning".

I hereby authorize Christina to make the above correction to all my previous posts.

That's actually an interesting question. Say I have a trisomy-23 pregnancy and I get convinced by CPC to grow it. Can I sue CPC for the Down-Syndrome expenses? How about the individual volunteer who persuades me, can I sue him/her, and have a realistic hope of winning? Hmmmm. Something like forty percent of my undergrad classmates went to law school....

Foxfier, formerly Sailorette said...

Ah, I see I was too generous to think you might be refering to "sue for malpractice."

Given that one can be sued for offering advice without a disclaimer such as "I am not your doctor"-- and be sued successfully.

Wrongful life suits are being won, as disgusting as they are; the very idea of suing someone because you didn't kill your child for something in their genes should make you hang your head, just as if you had suggested killing a child because a DNA test showed they would be female, or black, or would have blue eyes. (all of which can have dire medical results)

I notice you've dropped the allegation that PP would be hit hard for covering up child rape-- where's your brave defense of lawsuits for the women who actually die from abortions?

OperationCounterstrike said...

No, I have not DROPPED the thing about child rape, I've been addressing other questions. I can't waste ALL my time here, you know.

Yeah, one of the complaints against former DA Phill Klown's assistant (name of Maxwell) is that he knowingly allowed a special agent to LIE to the court, to claim that the child-rape in question had not been reported, when in fact it had already been reported AND PROSECUTED in California, and Maxwell knew this. The law does not require Dr. Tiller to function as a news agency.

And by the way I have no problem with women aborting because of race or gender. You have no business ordering another woman to grow a girl if she wants a boy. If you are worried about a shortage of girls in the world, the thing for you to do is get pregnant with, and grow, some girls--if you don't wanna do sex-selection abortion your own self (abort the boys), well, grow some female "snowflake babies" in your uterus, or maybe you could select x-bearing sperm BEFORE conception if your religious fetish doesn't mind--and grow some girls.

Speaking of snowflake babies, a few decades we could easily be growing all of them, if we weren't squeamish. Can you think how?

Foxfier, formerly Sailorette said...

I can't waste ALL my time here, you know.

And yet, you waste our time by throwing out filth without so much as a link.

You make claims without offering evidence, you drop topics when someone offers inconvenient truths, and you show a willingness to discriminate against people for genetic reasons that is, frankly, disgusting in this day and age.

I can see no reason to trust you any further than I would any other bigot, be they misogynist or racist.

Foxfier, formerly Sailorette said...

Blah blah blah, ooh look, more unsupported garbage, do my proofs for me.

Wasting time.

Foxfier, formerly Sailorette said...

I already proved your assertions were garbage, when I showed that a DA is wants those tapes you so dislike for criminal proceedings.

You're not even an especially good troll....

SegaMon said...

Many CPCs do have Registered Nurses and Ultrasound Technicians that get paid for their services. These are licensed professionals, no?

Further, many CPCs refer people to pro-life OB/GYNs and adoption agencies. While a CPC may not be equipped to provide these services the places that they refer people to are.

To put it frankly, CPCs do refer and/or use proper resources. If they do not, then there can be a cause for concern.

OC, have you ever thought of the people who donate their time and money to a CPC? Have you ever thought about all of the diapers, baby food, referrals, personal counseling, baby toys, baby-sitting services that CPCs help to provide? I guess these helpful services (which PP doesn't provide) are not as good to you as an abortion?

Foxfier, formerly Sailorette said...

Of course not-- you still end up with folks OC doesn't like allowed to live.

SegaMon said...

I will repeat myself, OC:

So, will you answer me? You love to change subjects! However, your main topic was that CPCs get a whole butt load of money from the government. I proved the contrary but you have made no comment regarding this fact.

OperationCounterstrike said...

I would answer you but Christina has started deleting my answers. Sorry. Complain to her, not to me.

SegaMon said...

You could always answer me through email (available on my Blogger account information page). :)

OperationCounterstrike said...

Or, you could come to my blog and we can continue in comments.

OperationCounterstrike said...

Maybe you'll see this before she deletes it: the links you posted above are garbage. Yappery about lawsuits still in progress, about a lawsuit which the abortion worker WON, and a right-to-lifist DA who is willing to abuse his position by pretending to take nuisance-accusations seriously, like Phill Kline.

I didn't reply to them at first, because I wanted to spare you the embarrassment.

SegaMon said...


I wasn't talking to you about that particular information. I have argued about those tapes many a time. So what if many people would not take these as evidence. Even if PP shows up as clean from these horrendous acts, they still are the largest provider of killing unborn children in the nation. That fact is the worst part to me.

Anyways... Must I repeat myself again?

So, will you answer me? You love to change subjects! However, your main topic was that CPCs get a whole butt load of money from the government. I proved the contrary but you have made no comment regarding this fact.

What? You say no to emailing me? Thus, I say no to commenting on your blog. Only fair. :)

SegaMon said...

I asked "will you answer me" numerous times without an answer. Good times. :)