Wednesday, October 20, 2010

A question for my resident troll

Hey, OC! You claim that abortion deaths are a big yawn, just 1 per 100,000. (The number's bogus, but let's for the sake of argument claim it's accurate.)

Grayco is recalling 2 million strollers due to four infant deaths.

1 death per 100,000 is 10 deaths per million deaths your admitting to caused by abortion

4 deaths per 2 million is 2 deaths per million, which is just 1/5 the death rate you claim for abortion.

So, is Grayco going overboard? Should the infant deaths be shrugged off and Grayco strollers touted as safe? Or should women considering abortions be told that the procedure is at least five times as dangerous as a product that was recalled because it was causing deaths?

Just curious how you would spin this one.

33 comments:

OperationCounterstrike said...
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OperationCounterstrike said...

This is a very easy question to answer if you know even a little bit of epidemiology.

The difference is, the death risk from NOT getting an abortion (giving birth) is eleven times greater than the death risk from getting one. If abortion were unavailable, just as many people who currently die from abortion would be dying in childbirth, plus ten times more of them. For each patient-death abortions cause, abortions PREVENT eleven patient-deaths.

In contrast, the death rate from not using a defective stroller is zero. All (or nearly all) the children who would otherwise die in defective strollers will be saved by the recall.

I hope this answer makes things clear for you.

Jim Jordan said...

OC,
Abortion is death. Abortion is intentional murder. Are you defending it?
Click here to find out what you're really saying.

http://www.cbrinfo.org/

I doubt you have the balls to watch the video, my friend.

OperationCounterstrike said...

Not meaning to be rude, but I should point out that the fact that you had to ask the question shows that you are not qualified to run a blog on the subject of abortion mortality.

Jim Jordan said...

OC,
You have no name? Are you for real or some wannabe Stephen Colbert dude parodying the creepy Left?

OperationCounterstrike said...

Jim Jordan, I don't need to see your video because I have seen actual abortions.

Do you have the balls to go to medical school and watch real abortions?

OperationCounterstrike said...

And JJ, I said PATIENT deaths. The fetus is not the patient and its death doesn't count.

Jim Jordan said...

No, Obvious Comedian, I have no desire to watch babies be dismembered. It would be too tempting, via my balls that is, to drive a scalpel through the "doctor"'s forehead. Then I'd go to jail. Wouldn't be good.

OperationCounterstrike said...

Jim Jordan, the fetus' death doesn't count because when you measure the mortality of a procedure, you only count the deaths of the patients, not the deaths of people other than the patients. If a doctor who does hernia operations goes home and kills his wife, that death does not count toward the mortality of hernia operations, because the doc's wife was not a hernia patient.

Another example: when you calculate the mortality of kidney transplants, you only include the deaths of the recipients (the patients), not the deaths of the donors. (The donor's deaths are included in a calculation of the mortality of kidney DONATIONS, not in the mortality of kidney transplants).

I hope this clears things up for you.

Jim Jordan said...

So, anonymouse pro-choice anarchist, if you take your Dad to the fifth floor of the hospital, and take the elevator from the fifth floor to go get coffee, only the elevator car is on the ninth floor for maintenance, and you fall into the empty elevator shaft and are mortally impaled five stories below on a mophandle on the ground floor next to the janitors' quarters, and you die instantly.....YOUR DEATH DOESN'T COUNT because your dad was the patient.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

OperationCounterstrike said...

In that case, my death would not count as part of the mortality of any medical procedure, no.

This is part of the definition of the medical term "mortality": you only include deaths of patients, not deaths of people other than the patients.

Jim Jordan said...

So, your death doesn't count at all? OMG, OC, I'm so sorry. lol

OperationCounterstrike said...

It doesn't count AS PART OF THE MORTALITY OF ANY MEDICAL PROCEDURE. Of course it counts in the broader sense. But the topic of this thread is the mortality of abortion, not broader moral concerns.

OperationCounterstrike said...
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OperationCounterstrike said...

Nope.

Jim Jordan said...

Thanks, OC, and good night. This is the most fun I've had in 1 hour and 19 minutes since, well, yesterday. I enjoy LIFE.

Cecilia said...

Of course OC is lying when he says that childbirth is 11 times more deadly than childbirth. Maybe in the 3 rd world (and even there I'd question it, because the same unsanitary conditions that make childbirth dangerous there, would also be present in abortions, increasing their danger as well). But with the good medical care we have in this country, death in childbirth is very rare. Won't say it never happens, but it's very rare.
However, people like OC will try to make young pregnant women think that if they don't abort right now, it will be the cemetary for them. He does this, not because of any real danger the women face, but because he gets a lot of money from abortion. The more abortions he sells, the more money he gets. When women choose life and walk out of his clinic still pregnant, he sees money flying out the door.

Cecilia said...

Christine: Why did you delete some of OC's comments? Were they lewd and disgusting? Did he threaten anybody?
By deleting them, we are left without knowing how sick he is. As a representative of abortionists, it's good if he shows what an uncaring weasel he is. Maybe this portait will scare women away from abortionists.
If there is too much vile language involved, maybe this could be mentioned without saying the words. If he's threatening people, using racist or sexist language, or in some other way showing his hatefullness and lack of compassion, please let us know that happened without printing the offensive material directly.

GrannyGrump said...

OC, I appreciate that you grasp that you'd have to compare the stroller deaths to other deaths (though I'd say you'd have to look at deaths from other strollers, snuglis, carrying the baby in your arms, etc.)

But as far as abortion is concerned, you're forgetting that:

1. Abortion always has a 100% fatality rate for the baby. So we're starting with 100,000 per 100,000 mortality. (Imagine if every time a gun was fired, somebody was killed.)

2. Even if you actually consider the death of the baby to be a GOOD thing, like an exterminator views the death of the cockroach, your making invalid comparisons between choosing abortion and choosing to carry to term.

For the woman who it turns out has an ectopic pregnancy, it's safer to intend to carry to term, because the ectopic pregnancy symptoms will be dismissed as just post-abortion symptoms, and will be ignored until it's too late. SO that's already one group of women for whom NOT seeking an abortion is much less likely to end in her death than a woman seeking an abortion.

You need to compare like to like. Healthy woman seeking abortion for social reasons. WHich is more likely to kill her?

Stressed out woman seeking abortion in a panic. Is she more likely to decompensate and kill herself after an abortion, or after childbirth? All the evidence is that the abortion will actually exacerbate her depression and lead to a higher suicide risk.

Woman with, say, gestational lupus. Which is more likely to kill her?

Why not do longitudinal studies of abortion as a treatment for A, B, C, etc., and see which treatment is better?

OperationCounterstrike said...
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SegaMon said...

Have we somehow determined that OC is an abortionist?

Jim Jordan said...

OC--Doesn't matter. Those babies are located inside the bodies of other people, where they are not welcome

And if those babies are located inside the blogs of other people, where they are not welcome...?

so their deaths don't matter, and are justifiable homicides, not murders.

You're so over-the-top funny, OC, that I just can't take you seriously. When abortion is finally illegal once again, as it should be and will be, we'll be reminded of sick folks like you and the significance of what we have defeated.

Rupert said...

How much would you like to wager that abortion does not become illegal JJ?
That'd be like returning to slavery or not allowing women to vote.

SegaMon said...

"That'd be like returning to slavery or not allowing women to vote."

Actually, it would be like rendering moot the distinction of blacks as 3/5 a person.

Cecilia said...

The statistics on abortion deaths are covered up. When there's an emergency in an abortion clinic, they have the ambulance come to the back of the building, with no lights or siren, so it won't be seen or heard. This so as not to frighten other patients in the abortion clinic. Image is everything and we wouldn't want to frighten the customers away.
Often when a woman dies of a so-called "safe" and legal abortion, the death certificate will say something else, or just not mention that abortion was involved. Such deaths don't look good for the abortion industry. It's not politically correct to admit that abortion might damaging for women. So such deaths are covered up. But some word of them gets out anyway. You still hear of it more frequently than you hear of women dying in childbirth.
But abortionists lie to women in a desperate effort to sell them abortions. Since OC is an abortionist and has a vested interest in having the public view abortion positively, we can hardly trust his statistics. Nine to eleven times safer than childbirth? I doubt it. I would have heard of more than one women dying of childbirth if that were true. But I've heard of numerous women dying of abortion, even so-called "safe" and legal ones.
I think OC is lying here.
BTW: OC's picture reminds me of that Jack Nicholson character in the movie, 'The Shining' when he was in his nastiest mood.

Kathy said...

Have we somehow determined that OC is an abortionist?
Segamon,

OC is a former med student but is not a doctor.

SegaMon said...

Kathy, thank goodness that quack is not a doctor. If OC was a doctor he would best fit with those physicians who experimented on people in the Nazi regime.

OC, I'm a pro-life nurse and proud!!!

Jim Jordan said...

Rupert--How much would you like to wager that abortion does not become illegal JJ?
That'd be like returning to slavery or not allowing women to vote.


Slavery and denying women the right to vote come from seeing people as less than human, just as abortion does. We went back, NOT forward, with abortion.

SegaMon said...

Slavery dehumanized humans.

Sexism dehumanized women.

Abortion dehumanizes the unborn.

Simple as that.

Kathy said...

Abortion allows women to participate in life without restriction, huh? Really? No, it allows women to participate in death, and denies life to an unborn human.

Lilliput said...

I don't know if you can make something like abortion illegal as it will still be done - like making drugs illegal.

What do you propose, we put women that have tried to do their own abortion or procure an illegal abortion in prison? They are not really a danger for the rest of society and what do we do with their other children.

GrannyGrump said...

Cecilia, OC nuked some of his own comments, usually because he decided to rephrase it or he accidentally double posted. (I get all the posts via email, even if they're later deleted by the author.)

I typically nuke posts for being outright rude, or because they annoy me. So sometimes OC will come and post something, and I'll rebut it if I have time and feel like it. He can post virtually the same thing verbatim later (as he often does), and I'll just say, "Screw it" and nuke it because I don't feel like dealing with his shit at the moment.

It's my blog, so I have no problem with being arbitrary.

Cecilia said...

Yup, Christine. It's your blog and you can run it any way you want to.