Monday, March 13, 2006

Somebody was looking for "aborting a 20 week fetus"

I'm not sure exactly what they wanted to know about aborting a 20 week fetus. But here goes.

First, let's learn more about a 20-week fetus. According to The Visible Embryo, the 20-week fetus is 5.6 to 6.4 inches crown-to-rump, and weighs about 9 ounces (260g):

Extremely rapid brain growth begins lasting until five years after birth. Eyebrows and scalp hair become more visible and fetus blinks more often. Lanugo hair covers body completely, although concentrated around head, neck and face.

Heart beat grows stronger.

Testes of male fetuses begin descending from the pelvis into the scrotum.

Legs approach final length and proportion relative to body. Arms and legs move with more force, as muscles strengthen. Skeleton hardens. Hand strength improves. Although the placenta provides nearly all fetal nourishment, fetus will begin to absorb small amounts of sugar from swallowed amniotic fluid. By 21 weeks, fetal bone marrow starts making blood cells — previously done by the liver and spleen.


You can click here to see what a 20-week fetus looks like. (Not a gruesome picture) You can see a 4D ultrasound of a live 20-week fetus in-utero here or here. If you go to YouTube you can do a search and see dozens more.

So, we know what they look like and what they do when they're in the womb. Time to cut to the choice, and answer the question: How do you kill them?

There are three basic methods for aborting a 20-week fetus:
  • Instillation, which involves taking out some amniotic fluid and replacing it with something to kill the fetus and/or trigger labor. This technique has fallen out of favor but is still used sometimes for reasons that elude me. The most popular chemical for this kind of abortion was hypertonic saline. You can see the results of a 21-week saline abortion here. The red skin is from the corrosive action of the salt solution. Abortion workers dubbed these fetuses "candy-apple babies" because of the bright red color.
  • The most popular method is D&E, for "dilation and evacuation". This involves reaching in with forceps and dismembering the fetus. You can read Leroy Carhart's testimony about how he does these abortions. You can look at this medical illustration of the technique used on a 23-week fetus. There's really little difference between a 20-week fetus and a 23-week fetus, so this illustration is accurate but for the size of the fetal parts. Here is a photo of the head of a slightly older fetus being removed with the D&E method.
  • D&X or "Partial Birth Abortion" pulls the fetus out whole until only the head remains in the uterus. The doctor then stabs the baby in the base of the skull and suctions his brains out. This leaves a presentable fetus to show the mother, provided you stuff the head with cotton balls or something first. I can't find a photo of the final result, but here is a collection of photos showing a 22-week fetus being removed whole, evidently vaginally. So this is similar but the fetus is slightly larger and his head isn't collapsed.

George Tiller has his own technique, which involves injecting the fetal heart with a chemical to cause death, then using laminaria to dilate the cervix. The combination of a dilated cervix and a dead fetus triggers labor. Tiller doesn't have a name for his method, since he insists on referring to his late abortions as "managing the pregnancy by premature delivery of a stillborn." Here is a photo taken during one of the "memorial services" Tiller arranges for after the abortion.

How dangerous or safe is a 20-week abortion? By sixteen weeks, all the pro abortion statistical manipulations in the world can't make abortion seem less risky than carrying the baby to term. And the risk to the mother's life doubles every two weeks after the 16-week point. This means that even if we grant, for the sake of argument, that their numbers are accurate, we're still left with an 18-week abortion being twice as risky as childbirth, and a 20-week abortion being four times as risky.

Why are abortions done at 20 weeks? US News & World Report investigated abortion supporters' claims about late abortions. In looking at the reasons for late abortions, the report said:
[T]he survey undermines another claim sometimes made by abortion-rights groups, at least with regard to the D&X issue: that late abortions are usually done for medical reasons, particularly to protect the life and/or health of the mother. Only 9.4 percent of late abortions at clinics that responded to the U.S. News survey were done for medical reasons, either to protect the mother's health (a rare situation) or, more commonly, because of fetal defects such as spina bifida and Down's syndrome. For the handful of very late abortions, those after 26 weeks, medical reasons do predominate. But for post-20-week abortions generally, about 90 percent were classified by the clinics as "nonmedical."


Here are some stories of 20-week abortions:
  • Mary Bradley, a 41-year-old mother of four, underwent a 20-week abortion performed Dr. Wayne Patterson in March of 1985, and died as a result.
  • "Megan" alleged that she went to Delta for the abortion of her 20 week pregnancy. The abortion was performed by Richardson Glidden March 28, 1984. Glidden failed to determine the position of the fetus, was unable to retrieve fetal leg, and sent Megan patient home with assurance that she would expel the leg. Megan was bedridden with pain for six days, then returned to Delta. Glidden then informed Megan of a laceration of her uterine wall in addition to the retained leg. Glidden's attempt to remove the fetal leg was unsuccessful. Megan was transported to a hospital, where the fetal leg was removed through a surgical incision. (Baton Rouge Parish District Court Case No. 281159)
  • Guadalupe Negron, a 33-year-old mother of four from Honduras, went for an abortion at Metro Women's Center in Queens, New York, on July 9, 1993, and died as a result.
  • "Francine" was 17 years old and 20 weeks pregnant when she came to Eastern Woman's Center for her abortion, which was botched.
  • In 1988, the Health Department noted that a 17-year-old patient at Eastern Women's Center, who was actually 20 weeks pregnant, was told that she was 8 or 12 weeks pregnant; her abortion resulted in injury and hospitalization.
  • "Margot" thought she was 13-14 weeks pregnant, but turned out to be 20 weeks pregnant when her abortion was performed.
  • Nineteen-year-old Robin went to Bill Baird's abortion clinic on February 22, 1980. Her abortion was done by an ear, nose, and throat specialist who realized after starting the procedure that the fetus was not 11 - 12 weeks as he'd originally estimated. As he continued the abortion, Robin pleaded for him to stop. He told her to "hold on a little longer" and said that he was saving her money by not using anesthesia. After Robin went into shock, staff walked her down the steps and sent her to the hospital in a taxi. Robin needed a hysterectomy, 16 units of blood, and 6 hours of surgery. She spent a month in the hospital, four days of that in the Intensive Care Unit, and nearly died. She continued to suffer lingering physical problems with her legs and bladder after discharge. It was determined that Robin had actually been around 20 weeks pregnant. Bill Baird and his clinic are National Abortion Federation members. (Suffolk (MA) Superior Court Civil Action No. 47117)
  • "Malorie" Roe was 35 years old and 20 weeks pregnant when she sought an abortion in 1974. She suffered a fatal pulmonary embolism.
  • Gail Wright was 29 years old when she underwent a legal abortion. She was 20 weeks pregnant. She developed sepsis and died.
  • "Colleen" Roe traveled from Michigan to New York for a safe and legal abortion in early March of 1972. She was 21 years old and 20 weeks pregnant. She went into respiratory arrest and died.
  • "Barbara" Roe was 35 years old when she traveled from Michigan to New York for a safe and legal abortion in 1971. She was 20 weeks pregnant. Within 24 hours of being injected with saline for the abortion, she went into convulsions, then her heart stoped.
  • Sharon Hamptlon (pictured, with son Curtis) was 20 weeks pregnant when her abortionist sent her home, still bleeding from a perforated uterus. She bled to death in the back seat of the car, with her mother driving and her three-year-old son in her arms.

If you have any further questions, please just let me know.


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48 comments:

Anonymous said...

what the hell are you thinking postng a site like this online? are you encouraging murder? if you are the you're the sickest person alife!!!!

Anonymous said...

First of all learn how to spell.

Second of all this website is obviousely used to prevent murders of babies and their mothers who have no sense in aborting a poor child that was not asked to be conceived.

When a woman lays in bed with a man with no sort of birthcontrol common sense would let you know that there is a great risk of becoming pregnant and if that is something that you are not asking for then simple... use birthcontrol, there are tooooooo many ways to prevent pregnancy now a days to have an unwanted pregnancy and kill a poor innocent child.

GrannyGrump said...

Anon #2, thank you for stepping to my defense but please don't attack Anon #1 for spelling errors. First of all, it's easy enough to make a typing error. Second of all, some people have problems such as dyslexia that make it difficult for them to spell or to spot their own spelling errors, and it would be very mean to scold a stranger for something they can't help. Third, some people have had the good fortune to be better educated, others have had the poor fortune to attend poorer schools or to have parents that took no interest in their education; it's not kind to fault them for that.

We need to look at what the person is saying, and not let our own prejudices about spelling get in the way.

That said, you are probably correct in assuming that Annon #1 misunderstood the intent of the post. Please try to correct such misunderstandings gently! "A soft answer turneth away wrath," the Bible reminds us.

Anonymous said...

This is the saddest thing I've ever seen....

Anonymous said...

I was 100% pro choice until seeing this posting. I am 17 weeks pregnant and was considering "my options" while I await my amnio results. This site absolutely convinced me that at this point it would be murder to abort my child if it has downs syndrome. It actually made my "choice" easier because I will never abort it now.

GrannyGrump said...

Anon, that's wonderful!

Here are a couple of Down Syndrome links you might find interesting.

If you need further help or information, please email me or just keep communication open here on this blog! I'd love to see pictures of your baby!

GrannyGrump said...

Anon, somebody reminded me to post this link for you, on the slight chance that there is a diagnosis and that it's scarier than Down Syndrome:

Be Not Afraid

Please do keep in touch! Hugs and prayers.

Anonymous said...

I think this sight show people the truth and what to expect if they want abort thier child why any one would want to is beyond me i think god punishes the ones who kill why do you think so many women died from this??

GrannyGrump said...

Anon, people can do terrible things when they're stressed out and scared, especially if they have "experts" reassuring them that it's "the right thing to do."

This is especially true in abortion, when ambivalence and rejection are very common and normal early in pregnancy, but women are taught that this normal, self-limiting ambivalence is some sort of "proof" that they'd be unfit mothers.

Anonymous said...

This page is sick! people spread there legs then want to kill there babies... people who have abortions should never be able to have kids.. theres people out there who can't have children and sorry people who have abortions kill babies.

Anonymous said...

Oh my God this is so sad, I mean I sat here and cried seeing some of these photos. Way I see it is regardless it is murder. I don't care if it is just a fetus and not full term it is a human life.

Anonymous said...

while everyone has there opinions....and options all medical procedures are scary when you know all the details. You have to do what is best for you. Don't let anyone sway your decision make an educated one. everyone one has an opinion make your own.

CCU/ICU RN nurse

GrannyGrump said...

Well, anon, I agree that everybody needs information. But I don't give a rat's ass how "right for you" you think it is, there's still no legitimate reason to kill a child.

It OUGHT to be revolting and horrifying to learn how abortions are done. It ought to be so horrifying and revolting that people rise up in a body and say, "Enough of this barbaric practice!"

That it isn't tells a lot about what sort of society we are. And it doesn't say anything flattering.

Anonymous said...

I had an 11 week abortion 5 years ago not because I "spread my legs," that was done for me forcefully. When I left they forgot to give me my medication(I lived 2 states away). It was such a horrible experience, I am anti-abortion now. They literally herd women through like cattle. It is disgusting. Now I have been pregnant twice and am having a hard time carrying a baby to term. I should have given that baby up for adoption. It makes me incredibly sad now. I am 20 weeks pregnant now, and I didn't know they allowed abortions that late. Please pray for me and my little boy I am carrying. I so want a healthy baby.

GrannyGrump said...

Hugs and prayers, anon.

Anonymous said...

I am 18 years old. i had an abortion seven months ago... i was pregnant by a 34 year old at 17. i was convinced by him that it was the right thing to do...he also said if i had a baby he would go to jail for getting a minor pregnant. now he is with someone and i am alone. i cry every night because i know i did a horrible thing... i made the wrong decision and i regret it everyday. I want to have babies but i know i am not worthy of having a child after what i did... not every person has an abortion by choice... i am not a bad person but i did make a really bad decision... and my decision will haunt me for a long long time... I pray for forgiveness. i am so depressed and i cant talk to anyone about it because i am so ashamed of what happened and no one knows except him... i am alone. please pray for me to have the strength to carry on.. and cope with what happened...

GrannyGrump said...

Hugs, anon.

Try to get in touch with your local pregnancy center and get hooked up with a post-abortion support group.

belle said...

im 26 years old and 16 weeks pregnant. this is my second pregnancy. honestly, i never wanted to get pregnant again especially if the father is not my husband. it was stupid of me to to engage in extra marital affair and ive regretted it o much. i desperately need to have an abortion because i dont want to lose my family. can u help me, pls?

GrannyGrump said...

Belle, try contacting a pregnancy center and getting some real help.

OptionLine: 800-395-HELP

The Nurturing Network: 800-TNN-4MOM

Or check out Pregnancy Centers Online.

Starr said...

OMG! Belle DO NOT abort this baby! If u have any heart or soul there's living baby inside u. At 16 wks the baby looks like a newborn baby all features in place. Heart beats and it even starts breathing fluid. It is MURDER 2 abort a baby and whats more u laid with the man of ur own accord so be a real woman DONT ABORT!

Brittany said...

I would first like to say that in MY opinion, abortions are murder! If you don't want to risk getting pregnant than don't have sex! People can do other things together. Second, there are so many people in this world that can't get pregnant and have their own children, so they adopt. That should be the only option. You either keep the miracle that god gave you, or you give that miracle to someone who deserves it, but doesn't have the ability! And Belle I don't mean to sound harsh, but you are old enough to know the consequences of your actions! Don't make an innocent child suffer for your actions! PLEASE!

angel05 said...

First let me tellyou that all truth comes out if you abort n get sick your husband will wonder why? N you will have to explain. Second try talking to him, if he loves you he will understand he might need sometime but love is strong. If he doesn't then those ate consequences you have to take for your OWN mistakes. The baby hasno part in this he didn't ask to be made but he is already there alive moving, progressing in it's growth do the best thing give it away if you don't want to be reminded of ur mistake. Bug if u abort if will haunt you forever you will dream about it, will feel more depresses. Abortion is not the answer to your problem, marital counceling and talks are this is between you and your husband, the baby just happened to be in the middle.

saylenjane22 said...

I am 21 weeks pregnant, this is my first baby. I have read this site and all the comments, I just want to say that I can feel my daughter moving inside me and I am brought to tears just thinking of women that would abort their poor helpless babies. I could not imagine aborting my baby ever, let alone at this point in my pregnancy. It saddens me that as adults or human beings we dont have more common sence to prevent the pregnancy before hand instead of taking the easy way out and aborting. Its disgusting in my opinion and against my christian beliefs also. My husband and I await the arrival of our first baby in Oct of this year.....praise God!! Also prayers sent to all the women out there that are in need of help.

mum1987 said...

i have just had a baby and i think it is disgusting to suggest that somebody is not a women for deciding to abort a baby. i agree that they can survive outside the womb at around 23 weeks and onwards however the medical problems of a baby at this gestation are vast. if a women decides to abort a baby with down's syndrome or spina bifida it is their choice, if my little girl had either of these i, too would have aborted, and yes sometimes these tests are wrong but it is a womens choice and they will have to deal with it if it turns out the foetus does not have any problems! let me remind you that at any time before 23 weeks it is a FOETUS and cannot survive or will die very soon after if there is no medical intervention. i also did have an abortion at 16 and would have been in a bad position if i had kept it, i had severe hyperemesis and was unable to function. this forum is disgusting women should not condemn other women who make choices to suit them! it is not a pleasant experience to have an abortion however i never regret my decision and i have 2 children now and still believe in abortion.

Kathy said...

Mum1987, I don't know why you call the unborn baby a FOETUS as if that means "non-human" or "sub-human." You might as well say that the baby you had is *just* a NEWBORN, and will die very soon after birth, if not given attention and possibly medical intervention. What's the difference? Just a few weeks of gestational development.

Please Google Ashli McCall to see another mom who had an abortion due to HG, because her doctor falsely told her that there was nothing he could do for her nausea other than abortion. In fact, there are many medications and treatments that can help. She went on to have four (I think) babies, all with HG during the pregnancies, but with treatment none so bad as the first, which might have killed her had she continued the pregnancy with no treatment. Did your doctor suggest Zofran for you nausea? Were you hospitalized to receive IV nutrition and fluids? Or did the doctor just tell you that the only way to treat your nausea was to kill your baby?

You say you're pro-choice. What about the baby's choice?

mum1987 said...

i wasnt told to abort because of the HG,and i was told there was nothing they could do, i suppose if i had wanted to continue with the pregnancy doctors might have suggested iv nutrition and fluids, it was my choice anyway, my daughter was born at 30 weeks and if she hadnt been so small and was able to suck she would have survived without intervention but she still needed intervention at this late stage,and without she would have died. i am certainly not condoning these cowboys who cause deaths because of malpractice, these evil 'doctors' make me sick and cause pain and suffering unnecessarily. abortion is legal and safe if performed correctly under good doctors and nurses. this is the same as how dangerous pregnancy is, the risks associated with ;pregnancy are many including HG, colestasis,pre-eclampsia and eclampsia, these can cause stillborns and can kill the mother, i had pre eclampsia and it nearly killed me without a c section to deliver i would have died so would my daughter, my chances of having another awful pregnancy the same as that, and with my son are high and if i became pregnant again i would abort because of the danger i love my family and do not want to leave them prematurely. would you condemn a woman having an abortion to save her own life???????????

women have the right to choose and abortion is safe and legal if performed correctly and with the right care. a foetus is not a baby.
also a true christian isnt meant to use birth control are they?

GrannyGrump said...

First of all, mum1987, why should ANYBODY have any kind of right to have somebody else put to death purely on their say so?

Second of all, wouldn't a "good" doctor or nurse try to find a way to actually help the patient, rather than just shove her off to the abortuary so they don't have to bother with her?

And I looked at the (VERY rare) "life of the mother" discussion here.

What I find interesting is that abortion defenders will find some exceptional circumstance, argue, "Well how can you tell THIS WOMAN that she can't access abortion?!" as if her case is typical. "Hard cases make bad law." I'm sure we can find circumstances in which people were justified in stealing. (Say, a man broke into a cabin and stole food to save his child that was starving to death in their stranded jeep.) That doesn't mean we abolish all property crime laws from the books.

If you want to argue for abortion, you have to argue that the typical abortion is a beneficial thing to the woman and society. So you need a stressed-out woman, being pressured by loved ones into "getting rid of it", going trustingly to a "reproductive health care center" where they lie to her about her unborn baby's development so as to get her to consent to cave into the pressures her loved ones are putting on her. Start with THAT, and convince society that it's a good thing.

Kathy said...

If you truly think that having another baby will put your life in danger, I hope you have gotten yourself sterilized. I've heard about a product that I think is called Essure, or E-sure, or something like that, which is basically a little coil placed into the fallopian tubes, which scars them completely shut. I don't know what risks or side effects they have other than the typical risks associated with surgery; but at least then you would know for sure you wouldn't get pregnant.

Fetus/foetus simply means the unborn offspring of something; it is as much a baby on the inside as it is on the outside.

Catholicism teaches that birth control is a sin, but I daresay that even the most hardhearted and hardheaded Catholic will agree that preventing conception is less of a sin than murdering an innocent unborn human. Not being Catholic, I wouldn't know. There are many different schools of thought on whether Christians should use birth control, with some having no problem whatsoever (of course there are some who claim to be Christians who have no problem with a lot of things absolutely forbidden in the Bible, but that's another topic entirely!), all the way to those who think that it is wrong even for married people to have sex unless they are fertile (i.e, the woman is ovulating). My personal take on it, is that I couldn't use birth control because of the small possibility of it allowing conception but preventing implantation, but that it is better for people to use birth control than to have abortions. I also wouldn't take it because of health reasons -- pumping my body full of artificial hormones just seems so wrong and unhealthy to me. I use NFP, or "fertility awareness" to avoid pregnancy, and have used condoms and spermicide in the past. Of course, before I got married, my form of birth control was abstinence. Yes, I was a virgin when I got married, and am so happy with that, even though it was difficult in a lot of ways.

Keesha said...

It totally amazed me how the very first comment was such, ARE YOU SERIOUS, lets not sit and ACT like this dont occur, its called being VERY AWARE this happens, call it what you want, MURDER, CHOICES whatever this does happen and it is what LATE abortions can do. As someone who has worked with female health this subject is OT by far a JOKE so if people want to walk around here uinformed and blind do so but it does occur! People need to OPEN their eyes as to what IS going on, whichver route people take the babies in Late abortions do have sensery nerves and can FEEl, so can you imagine a baby going through that pain, AND THAT MY FRIENDS IS REAL! I say I am agaist it, I do believe in some case as RAPE and INCESTIAL rapes or for health reasons when everything else has been exhausted.. it can be an option, but VERY EARLY on....not late term and yes a baby is a baby by all means but dont give the baby a full look onlife for months then take it, if its not what you want do it early or consider BIRTHCONTROL, very very doable.
And to parents of young girls, nevertheless, stop thinking just because she 11 or 12 she may bot be having sex, this day and age it is very very relevant, dont trust everything your kids tell you, be the PARENT and take control, stop hiding the fact these kids are having sex very early

Loren Aleman said...

I had an abortion on May 11 and 12, 2011. It is something that I regret every single say, and when I look back on it now, it was a very selfish choice. I couldn't have the baby because I wouldn't be able to support him, yet I didn't want to give him up for adoption because I knew by the end of the 9 months I'd be emotionally bonded with him and it would be difficult. So I paid for an abortion, because I was too selfish and I was putting my thoughts and worries before his precious life. It's correct when people say "you shouldn't have opened your legs" or "you could have used protection" because it's so easy to just put on a condom, so why couldn't I do it? I let my feelings of lust overcome my rational thinking. I was 22 weeks pregnant when I aborted my son, and it is something that I will regret for the rest of my life, not a day goes by that I don't think of him and the life that I selfishly took away from him. I constantly wonder if he fought for his life in my womb, because I remember on the night of May 11th, a few hours after the lamanaria was inserted and I was laying on the hotel bed, and I felt him kicking. His kicks began to get weaker and weaker and I started to cry so much, holding to my stomach tightly as if that could reverse everything. I will forever live with that memory of actually feeling my son die inside me. Kicking and moving a lot, perhaps fighting for his life, getting more feeble and faint until they ceased, and it was then that I knew he was dead. I deserve to be tormented by that memory for the rest of my life.

Loren Aleman said...

I'm not condoning abortions, it is something that can be 100% prevented, and I truly am disappointed in myself for not practicing safe sex because it is SO EASY so go to the store and buy a pack of condoms instead of having to put yourself into an emotional mess by having an abortion, and even more so by aborting a child that didn't ask to be conceived and who shouldn't have to pay for your acts of lust. As someone who has unfortunately had an abortion, I can definitely say that it is something that you as a woman shouldn't have to go through, and it isn't something that a baby has to loose his/her life over. That fact of the matter is that I SHOULDN'T have had unprotected sex if I wasn't going to accept the potential outcome, and that goes for every woman out there as well.

Christina Dunigan said...

How awful for you, Loren! Are you getting help and support to deal with your anguish?

rational person said...

So what do you suggest, genius? I may be having a baby with a severe genetic disorder. I already have kids and I do not want to myself and my family to deal with a sick child who will suffer and die shortly after birth. I am grateful to live in a place where I have a right to have this pregnancy terminated, even at 20 weeks. You religious people just do not get it sometimes.

Christina Dunigan said...

I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time, but has nobody suggested perinatal hospice to you? They provide you with support so that you can have every possible moment with your baby. The baby gets comfort measures and pain control. That seems like a compassionate alternative to the parents living the rest of their lives knowing that they had paid somebody to dismember their sick baby.

bloggernaut said...

There are so many thoughts I get when reading all these comments. Plus my initial thoughts upon seeing this site. Death is death and it eventually happens to every one. Murder may be more unfair because it is deliberate. I do believe that an abortion given to someone who is carrying a baby as a product of incest sparks the most understanding. I do not believe all women who get abortions have a choice. That is why I do not like this website. What about the 15 year old girl who gets pregnant and her parents ( being her legal guardians and therefore deciding all medical decisions) make her get an abortion? Or what about the women in an abusive relationship who gets pregnant and knows during her pregnancy the abuse will get worse and after the child is born it too will be abused? Do these people deserve to come across a site like this? I don't think so. I do not believe abortion is morally right and I guess that is why I haven't ever chosen this option for myself. I've thought about it. I have a one year old I raised on my own for the first 16 months. I chose to have sex but I did not choose to be a single parent. I decided I didn't want another child til I was married and settled into a career. That did not happen. After two years of abstinence I got pregnant by my boyfriend.(after giving up the abstinence thing of course) I don't like condoms and am allergic to latex. I tried birth control years ago and became suicidal and depressed. I am kind of glad for both of these things because I don't really believe in preventing life. If you do not know that having sex may result in pregnancy you should not be having sex. I think cigarettes are just as bad as abortions. I think even people that decide not to have abortions can still be bad parents. Abuse, drugs, alcohol, abandonment. There are tons of ways of doing wrong to your kids but none of those problems will be solved by putting the offender down. The thing about morals is that everyone's are different. But hey what do I know at 2 am? That I'll most likely have nightmares and anxiety after reading this site. That the comments written have only further my feelings of hopelessness for society, for the world. But keep on keeping on cause that's all any of us can do, until we can't.

Kathy said...

Bloggernaut, the likelihood that someone you describe would accidentally come to a blog like this and be traumatized is minimal; the likelihood is much greater that someone seeking an abortion at that stage of pregnancy would come across this blog and potentially decide not to have an abortion. I'd likely have nightmares and anxiety after viewing a website devoted to exposing the truth about the Holocaust, "honor killings", or even the wreck of the Titanic. But which is worse -- a website about abortion, or the fact that these abortions happen, and not just rarely, but with some frequency?

Finally, a word about birth control options: check into "Natural Family Planning" or "Fertility Awareness Method" for natural alternatives to your current birth control methods (or lack thereof). I've never been on hormonal birth control of any form; my husband did use condoms early in our marriage, but hasn't used them in probably 7 years; we have two children, both of whom were conceived with ease, so we certainly are fertile; we have only 2 children and have been married almost 9 years. Essentially, you learn your body's signs of fertility, and avoid sex at that time (or use some barrier). Obviously, abstinence is the only 100% foolproof method of pregnancy prevention, but NFP or FAM can both be highly effective.

Shrutidipti62 said...

I am pregnant at 18 weeks. My baby has Trisomy 13. The DR's say it is safe to have a DE. I don't want my baby to suffer. Is it wrong for me to have a D and E? Please answer honestly. I need help!

Shrutidipti62 said...

Also, this was a planned pregnancy. This is not birth control because of carelessness

Christina Dunigan said...

Shrutidipti62, think about what you said -- you don't want your baby to suffer. Do you know how a D&E is performed? The doctor reaches in and literally twists the limbs off your living baby until he dies of blood loss. Can you live the rest of your life knowing you did this to your child because some doctor told you that this would some how prevent your baby from suffering?

Even if they opt for a lethal injection in the heart to kill the baby before they start pulling arms and legs off, the injection method they use is one the ASPCA will not allow its shelters to use when putting down a stray dog. I don't think you would be preventing suffering by opting for this, and again, you would be living the rest of your life with the knowledge that you signed on the dotted line for your child to be painfully put to death.

Go to the Living With Trisomy 13 web site to network with other parents who have nurtured their children, and let them help you through this in a loving way that respects your child and provides you with the support you need.

Kathy said...

In addition to the link Christina gave above, I also have a variety of links dealing with "difficult prenatal diagnoses, stillbirth, and child loss" on my blog here (scroll down and look on the right for the title); I hope these help you.

Kaylynn.Spradling said...

I'm a 28 year old mother of three girls,& I've always been anti abortion, but when my youngest was only 7 months old, I was pregnant once again... I looked into early abortion, but knew that this little one was already mine. Your blogs gave me so much more courage and strength to dust off, and man up (so to speak)
I am now almost 21 weeks pregnant with my 4th daughter, were due July 4th. What a day to celebrate the independendance of life! I thank you for the public service that you provide...
You've probably saved more babies lives than you'll ever know.

Christina Dunigan said...

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement, Kaylynn. Congrats on the new little one, and remember that prolife centers are there for you even if you're not an abortion-minded woman whose baby they "rescued." Our local Birthright comes through with diapers and formula and baby clothes all the time for women who are strapped for cash.

nooks12 said...

Some info on fetal pain...this article below at end of my post is taken from the journal of the american medial association suggests there is no conscious perception of pain until about 23 weeks.

quote from the article:
"Fetal awareness of noxious stimuli requires functional thalamocortical connections. Thalamocortical fibers begin appearing between 23 to 30 weeks’ gestational age, while electroencephalography suggests the capacity for functional pain perception in preterm neonates probably does not exist before 29 or 30 weeks."

The foetus is a developing entity and so not all 'connections' and structures are fully formed at 8 weeks, 14 weeks, etc. Of course, the later it is in the pregnancy, the more fully developed is the foetus. I agree that there is a point where the foetus can feel pain and would suffer. At this point I would not want an abortion. But if a woman wants an abortion and is concerned about fetal pain, then she should be informed as much as possible about what is going on with the development of the foetus, not just make assumptions because it looks human. Easier said that done I know. I am 19 weeks pregnant and I wouldn't consider abortion. But that's me...

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=201429

Christina Dunigan said...

nooks, fetuses are not home entertainment systems that get "hooked up." They develop and mature.

Neurodevelopmental Changes of Fetal Pain reviews studies from the point of view of a physician that might have cause to perform procedures on a fetus not slated for abortion but rather slated for birth. The fetal response to what we would considered a pain-causing stimulus indicates that he or she is being caused stress but the stimulus. Exposing these fetuses to painful stimuli can actually cause damage to the nervous system.

From the perspective of somebody who intends to heal, rather than destroy, the fetus, it is considered wiser to err on the side of caution and to proceed with the presumption that the fetus will be responding to a painful stimulus as if, indeed, that stimulus is causing distress.

One can easily understand that doctors who participate in and/or support abortion do not want to believe that the movements of the fetus as if to avoid the instruments is a response to pain. They would not want to believe that abortion -- which is an undeniably violent act -- causes pain to the fetus. It's difficult enough for them to cope emotianally and morally with the torn body parts, with seeing lands and feet and intestines and faces. Were they for a moment to allow themselves to believe that the fetus can feel what is happening as those parts are being twisted off would be utterly unbearable.

Consider what dogs they have in the fight before you simply take their pronouncements as objective.

Jade said...

While I am strongly pro-choice, I generally have no issues with the opinions of pro-life people. My only complaint (and I feel this is extremely valid) is this: I am 20 weeks pregnant and can't wait to meet him. Each week, I eagerly look to see how much my baby boy has grown. But each week that I google to see my baby's size, I am greeted with gory, grotesque, militated babies which are intended only to shock and disturb women who may be considering abortion. I find this unacceptable. These photos should NOT be mixed in with general searches and should only be made available to those whom are directly seeking them. I should not be forced to see a beheaded baby or it's dissected bits because someone wants to torment abortion seekers. Seeing these pictures (which popped up when I typed 'how big is a 20 week fetus' " completely spoils my joy and deters me from being able to enjoy seeing my baby grow. Please keep in mind that a HUGE number of women searching to find the size if their fetuses are pregnant moms like me who want their babies and don't deserve to be subjected to barbaric photos.

Jade said...

You poor thing. I am so sorry that you are faced with such a difficult choice. PLEASE disregard the misleading information here that is only intended to serve the interests of a particular pro-birth interest group. This is a personal choice and probably the most difficult you will ever face -- especially considering this is a baby you planned for. Talk with MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS who are specifically trained to deal with trisomy 13 pregnancies. Ultimately the choice is yours and it is a personal one. Don't listen to rubbish about the baby being ripped into pieces - talk to a doctor about what the babies quality of life would be if you chose to continue. Find out what types of medical treatments are available to treat the child's condition. If YOU and your partner choose to continues, start gathering information on how you will be able to obtain (find/afford) said treatments. I cannot stress how important it is to gather as much information as you can from MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS who have no hidden agendas and only your best interest in mind. If you choose not to continue, that does NOT make you a bad person. You are a person who is faced with a horrible choice and NOBODY has the right to judge you. There are support groups and counseling experts available to help you cope with the emotional aspects. Whatever your choice, I wish you so much love. You will be fine!

Jade said...

Actually, she's absolutely right. Innocent people ARE being traumatized by this site. I am 20 weeks pregnant and ran a google search to find out big my baby was. Try this. The images are littered with gore! Instead of cute, developing babies, I was subjected to this. I am LIVID. I followed the photo to this page. I cannot even leave my browsing history up after searching to see how big my baby is because my innocent 7 year old daughter may also wind up subjected to these photos. I STRONGLY disagree that most women who google to see how big their baby is at 20 weeks are NOT seeking abortion -- they are excited moms-to-be like me who are VICTIMIZED by sites like this. These photos should require specific consent so that you can indeed reach your "target audience". All you succeeded in doing was ruining my excitement over seeing how big my baby is this week.

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