Monday, February 05, 2007

Somebody wanted "down syndrome abortion story"

We can start with the death of Linda Boom, the Wisconsin woman who chose abortion in 1995 because she didn't want to raise a child with Down Syndrome. For some reason her doctor chose the obsolete saline abortion method, and injected the saline directly into Linda's bloodstream.

Then there's the case of Christin Gilbert, a teen with Down Syndrome, whose parents chose abortion for her, ostensibly for "health" reasons. They took her past any number of fully-equipped hospitals where she could have undergone an emergency c-section within the hour, with full medical supervision, to have her aborted instead at George Tiller's Wichita abortion mill. There, under no real medical supervision other than her parents, she collapsed in the motel room. Instead of taking her to the hospital, her parents took her to Tiller's clinic, where she went into cardiac arrest. She was pronounced dead after transport to the hospital.

And I'll close with Brenda Pratt Schafer's observations on a "partial-birth abortion" (PBA, D&X, intact D&E, The Procedure Formerly Known as Prince, whatever) to kill a fetus with Down Syndrome.

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12 comments:

Tlaloc said...

It is worth pointing out that in regards to Dr. Tiller not only was he never found guilty of a crime but after all the hubub and witch hunts he was never even *indicted* by the grand jury.

An indictment is *much* easier to get than an actual conviction and yet the case against Tiller couldn't even meet that low threshold.

Tlaloc said...

Oh and the Kansas State Board of Healing Arts (their medical review board) also found in his favor despite the huge pressure exerted on them by pro-life groups out for blood (ah the irony...).

At some point, after all the vitriol, all the frame jobs, and all the smear jobs, you are going to have to accept that you are after the wrong guy.

GrannyGrump said...

Tlaloc, it's OBVIOUS to even a clueless MORON that Tiller was doing an illegal abortion on that girl. There is no possible imaginable situation in which she was so sick that she "needed" an abortion that would make it excusable to keep her in a motel room.

What part of that can't you grasp? If she is so sick that she needs to have that pregnancy over lest she die, then she's TOO SICK TO BE LEFT IN A MOTEL ROOM WITH NO MEDICAL SUPERVISION.

Either one of two things is true:

1. Christin had no health issue that required that her pregnancy be ended, in which case the abortion was illegal and Tiller is guilty of malpractice.

2. Christin was so sick that her life was in danger, and Tiller left her in a motel room without proper medical supervision, in which case he was guilty of malpractice.

Tlaloc said...

"What part of that can't you grasp? If she is so sick that she needs to have that pregnancy over lest she die, then she's TOO SICK TO BE LEFT IN A MOTEL ROOM WITH NO MEDICAL SUPERVISION.
"

That is patently untrue. I'll give you the same example I gave you last time that you never answered.

Imagine a woman with a dramatically narrow uterus such that giving birth vaginally is life threatening. Now imagine she also has a complication making major surgery like a c-section similarly life threatening (say Hemophilia or a severe reaction to anesthetics).

Such a woman cannot give birth and needs an abortion. And yet there is no reason she can't be in a motel room.

You keep pretending that a woman has to be "sick" in order to not be able to give birth when that is not true. Any number of conditions can be no threat under normal conditions but be a risk during birth.

GrannyGrump said...

Tlaloc, Tiller's abortion method is to kill the fetus and then induce labor. So your hypothetical situation doesn't hold up. If she couldn't deliver vaginally to deliver a live fetus, then it would be equally risky to have her stay in a motel room for three days to deliver a dead fetus.

Tlaloc said...

"Tiller's abortion method is to kill the fetus and then induce labor. So your hypothetical situation doesn't hold up."

But you now have to acknowledge that a similar scenario is possible, that your contention that a woman too "sick" to give birth is too sick to be in a motel room is FALSE.

You tacitly admit as much here. Were Tiller's method different then the exact hypothetical case I mention would apply.

GrannyGrump said...

I admit that your hypothetical situation is a feeble excuse you made up because nothing Tiller ever did could be wrong in your adoring eyes. He kills fetuses, and that makes him above reproach.

Tlaloc said...

"I admit that your hypothetical situation is a feeble excuse you made up because nothing Tiller ever did could be wrong in your adoring eyes. He kills fetuses, and that makes him above reproach."

*Sigh*

One of the things I've tended to respect about you is your real attempts to follow christianity. But part of that path is humility and a big part of humility is admitting error.

You were wrong here. I just demonstrated it to you and instead of accepting it and revising your opinion of the man you have consistently defamed (without cause it turns out) you chose to attack me.

How christian is that?

GrannyGrump said...

Tlaloc, being a Christian doesn't require shutting off your brain and believing stuff that is obviously can not be true. Believing in Tiller's innocence would require removal of key brain lobes.

Tlaloc said...

"Tlaloc, being a Christian doesn't require shutting off your brain and believing stuff that is obviously can not be true."

Then why do you spend so much time believing things that aren't true?

You insisted that it was impossible for a woman to need an abortion but be healthy enough to be in a motel. Then I gave you an example of how such a thing was possible and you continue to assert you are right.

That IS shutting off your brain, Christina. You have absolutely NOTHING to indicate Tiller is guilty of anything except your personal prejudice and DESIRE for him to be guilty. You are persecuting a fellow human being or what you WANT them to be rather than what they are.

And that is all too typical "christian" behavior. I like it better when you really try to live up to the good parts of the religion, not when you emulate its atrocities.

GrannyGrump said...

You insisted that it was impossible for a woman to need an abortion but be healthy enough to be in a motel.

First of all, it's impossible to need an abortion. It's something women elect or get frightened into, but there's no more "need" for an abortion than there was a "need" for John List to slaughter his entire family.

Second of all, I addressed the need to end a pregnancy in the third trimester due to maternal health reasons. Anything serious enough to require that the pregnancy be ended is serious enough to require hospitalization.

Until the Supreme Court invented it with Roe, there was no such thing as a post-viability abortion. It was invented purely to give legal sanction to women choosing to have fetuses put to death that would previously been delivered alive.

Tlaloc said...

"First of all, it's impossible to need an abortion. It's something women elect or get frightened into, but there's no more "need" for an abortion than there was a "need" for John List to slaughter his entire family."

Even if it will kill her to continue the pregnancy? How exactly is that not "needing" an abortion? What she needs to just die instead?



"Second of all, I addressed the need to end a pregnancy in the third trimester due to maternal health reasons. Anything serious enough to require that the pregnancy be ended is serious enough to require hospitalization."

GOD DAMN IT, CHRISTINA!

You aren't listening! I gave you an example of someone who is perfectly healthy to be outside a hospital but who isn't capable of surviving either childbirth or a cesarean.

And you just ignore it and pretend it isn't possible.

Tell me why it is impossible for a person to have a system that will die in childbirth but not be at risk to simply walk around. I gave you the example of the narrow birth canal. I'll give you another- a woman with a weak heart or aneurysm that won't stand up to the stress of trying to give birth.

Answer that if you can or stop saying something that is manifestly a LIE.



"Until the Supreme Court invented it with Roe, there was no such thing as a post-viability abortion. It was invented purely to give legal sanction to women choosing to have fetuses put to death that would previously been delivered alive."

And a lot of women used to die in childbirth. A lot of women STILL do die in childbirth. The "natural" mortality rate for giving birth is somewhere around 1%. We've managed to cut that down to about .1% by using good medical practices INCLUDING aborting births that are too dangerous.