Tuesday, June 22, 2010

Women: That loser isn't worth your life

Woman gunned down on Ill. highway as drivers watch

Dozens of drivers crawling along in Sunday traffic on a busy St. Louis-area highway watched in horror as a woman, bleeding from a gunshot wound, leapt from a car and across several lanes of traffic, banging on vehicle windows and begging for help before her boyfriend chased her down and shot her in the head, then killed himself, authorities said.

Fortunately, the woman's 7-year-old daughter, who was in the car, was unharmed.

But here's the crux of the matter:

[The shooter] had a long criminal record, including a conviction for cocaine possession and delivery in 2004 that led him to spend almost three years behind bars, according to the Illinois Department of Corrections. St. Clair County court records show he was due in court in next month after being charged with possession of marijuana and again in September over a pair of criminal trespass on state property charges.

What has society come to, where women will settle for this kind of man? She ended up paying for her poor judgement or lonliness or whatever moved her to have him in her life, with her life.

He wasn't worth it.

Now her traumatized child has to live without a mother.

How do we bring up a new generation of women who wouldn't give a man like that the time of day? Who would rather be independent and self-sufficient than to debase themselves, and risk their own and their children's lives, by getting close to losers?

Read Cracked.com's The 10 Most Important Things They Didn't Teach You In School for a less preachy lesson on how to separate the rose from the poison ivy:

Young ladies, you're in your teens now and already you have no doubt run into some guys who are being suspiciously nice to you. Likely you have figured out that in many cases, this has nothing to do with them being nice guys and everything to do with them desperately wanting you to touch their boner.


Now, some of these men will then become members of the Pick Up Artist Community, also known as the Seduction Community. This is a loose club of guys who see females as a collection of walking masturbation aids.

The Cracked.com author called them "douchebags". Sort of apropos.

All these guys want is a place to dip their wicks. Except the ones who also want to deal drugs out of your place or have you stash their dope for them.

They're trouble.

I'm a case manager in a welfare-to-work program, and the clear and far away #1 reason women end up on welfare is that they have sex with losers.

Spend your time becoming the best person you can become, so that you'll attract a man who will treat you with dignity and respect. Who won't get you busted for possession or conspiracy. Who won't shake your baby to death or gun you down in traffic.

A woman needs to be, as Dr. Laura said, more than "just a wo-wo-wo on a man."


army_wife said...

Amen to that. Great post!

Lilliput said...

I'm not trying to be funny Christina but the reason these women go onto welfare is not because they slept with a man, but that they didn't get the parenting and education that is required to turn a child into a productive member of society. This is also why the man turned into a drug crazed murderer. They were born to parents who never should have had them and then they become parent to kids they can't parent effectively. I know it sounds mean but the most humane thing would have been to abort because they just end up killing themselves and maybe others anyway. I think that rich and poor/ educated and uneducated teenagers fall pregnant at the same rate but the rich educated ones choose or are encouraged to abort and have a chance to better themselves while the poor have their babies and become trapped in the poverty and pass the misery and disfunction onto the next generation. Its pretty simple to me.

army_wife said...

Gee, Lilliput, does that mean that I should have been executed before birth? I mean, my parents were poor, uneducated, mom was 18 and dad 19, and they were newly married when I was conceived. They were both from "disadvantaged" backgrounds. Mom was from a working-class family and Dad from a hard-working farm family that didn't have much. That automatically guarantees that I will be a serial killer or something, right? Passing my "dysfunction" on to my own children someday? I was a ticket to an endless future of minimum-wage welfare-dependant drudgery for my parents?

Thanks for the compliment, but uh, not quite. First of all, these children don't *ask* to be conceived. Please forgive them for the "crime" of being alive. Second, it is not a helpless set of circumstances that dictates your future. It's what you choose to make of it. If you just throw up your hands and yield to despair, then no, you won't make anything out of your life. If you're willing to work hard and stay committed to your obligations, doing the right thing the best way you know how, then generally you'll be all right.

And remember that Bundy didn't come from a poor background.

L. said...

"...#1 reason women end up on welfare is that they have sex with losers."

So let's all have sex only with winners, and all our troubles with go awaaaaaaaaay.

Why is it assumed that women have honest intentions, and that the guys are the losers? Isn't it possible that the guys are having sex with "losers," too?

army_wife said...

And by the way, my dad isn't some drunk, impoverished wreck because I was born. He's a highly intelligent, highly successful, college-educated individual today. He worked hard and chose to make the best of the outcomes of his own choices, instead of getting caught up in some kind of entitlement or victim/pity-party mentality. I'm not saying the road is easy, but what I am saying is that you have to win the war in your mind first. You can't allow negative self-talk to defeat you in pursuing your goals.

Rupert said...

Lilliput, you are almost prescribing eugenics! And while there are times when it seems tempting, it is often based on biased opinions or dictated by loons.

That is why I do not have any argument against GG and others when they discuss the socio/economic imperatives which have tended to apply unequal pressure on particular groups of society (settle GG settle, this has nothing to do with individual women having free choice).

I did find it interesting to note that statistics indicated a drop in the crime rate exactly 18 years after abortions became freely available. The socio/economic implications of that muddy the waters significantly.

Kathy said...

That drop also strongly correlates with removing lead paint from things commonly available to infants and children.

Rupert said...

Not quite accurate Kathy. Lead started being removed from paint from the late 40's.

Over the period of time when manufacturers were voluntarily removing lead from paint, the correlating crime rate 18 years later was on the increase.

There are also the socio/economic comparative factors. Lead paint has an even level of occurrence whereas the specific groups identified as both 'high crime' and 'high abortion' were conjunctive.

Lilliput said...

I'm not precribing eugenics, I'm suggesting that people don't have children they cannot afford and expect everyone else to pay for. And Army wife I'm not wishing you were never born for gods sake - my parents were also poor when they had me - but the point is that as little as they had it was enough toi cover everything we needed and as I grew up so they achieved greater career success.

What's happening now is single young girls get pregnant without a partner and then jave to go on welfare as they don't have him for support. They also feel lonely and isolated and will end up with users and abusers. Also, its the poor in any first world country that have the most children and this is driving the inequality which drives the crime up.

Finally, army wife you do realise that the way you are parented will affect your brain structure. If your momma didn't think you were the most wonderful thing in this world, didn't show u love, trust, discipline - you won't know how to do them - so how much choice do u have?

And before u say it - yes I know that there are plenty of people with crappy childhoods that turn out fine. I agree - but there are plenty more that don't!

Lilliput said...


Army wife - please read up on Bundy - there are things u don't know otherwise u wouldn't have mentioned him under an anti abortion discussion.

army_wife said...

Hmm, perhaps I was thinking of another serial killer. I was thinking of one who came from a stable, middle- or upper-class home with both parents, etc.

But still - the question is, just because someone is poor, or born to an unwed mother... that means you get to decide they have too high of a chance of becoming criminals, so they don't deserve to live? How exactly do you propose to tell which children will grow up to be evil, and which will be "normal" members of society? And who gave you that right anyway?

And my upbringing was not perfect. My birthmom was mentally a bit unbalanced. Birthmom was abusive (comparatively mildly). I did NOT receive unconditional love/trust growing up, even from my dad at times (I love Dad dearly but he still made occasional mistakes!). Even if that did affect my brain structure, the amazing thing about the human brain is that it can relearn and adapt. My parents weren't perfect, and I'm not a perfect parent either. But I can change the things I didn't like about my past and break those cycles. I have plenty of choice in that matter - if I have a problem or want to do better, I pray for help and get counseling if necessary. I read books, I do whatever I need to do to effect change in my life.

As someone who has dealt with a lot of loneliness and isolation over my lifetime, I can tell you without a doubt that sleeping around is NOT the answer to that! That's one of the points being made here - women need to be brought up knowing they are worth MORE THAN THAT. They need to be taught these things. Why do you think they [unwed mothers] started sleeping around and got pregnant in the first place? Uh, because they felt lonely and were looking for love, only they weren't taught that real love isn't behind some guy's fly. Look, I've been there and done that. I looked for love with boys when I was younger, and guess what? I found heartache instead. A lonely girl/woman does not need to find out what being used by boys/men feels like. I think that is a large part of what is fundamentally broken within our society and what leads to so much unwed pregnancy, etc. When fathers love their daughters and teach them they are valuable and worth so much more than a backseat romp - when we as a society (moms, dads, the media, everyone) lift women up and say "sex is NOT love, you are valuable, unique, and should treat yourself with the dignity and respect which you deserve" - then I believe we will see improvements in this situation.

And having a self-defeating attitude prevents us from moving forward as individuals. When we do have problems the most effective way to hamstring ourselves is to convince ourselves that we are helpless to do anything about it.

army_wife said...

After some thought, I think it might have been Dahmer, not Bundy, that I had been thinking of before (serial killer with a "normal" upbringing). My bad.

Lilliput said...

Dahmer - normal? I guess it depends on what you call normal? A mentally ill mother abusing prescription medication, ferocious fights between parents, massive double hernia operation at 4 years old, sexual assault by boy at 8, being abandoned by parents at 17 years old after their divorce and being a full blown alcoholic at the same age.

I don't know how u think its possible for a person to wake up one morning and decide to be a serial killer? They get made Army wife - a myriad of little things that happen interact with genes and hay presto - a infamous star is born!

As for women not being shown by their Dad how to be loved - its a bit difficult if they are awol! That's why single women shouldn't have babies. Current research shows girls without fathers menstrate earlier and get older looking quicker. It is thought that because they don't have a male protecting them they have to grow up quicker to attract a male to protect them.

Finally, I agree you can't tell which child will be a killer and which will be an einstein so we have to let them all live - but then we have to accept that killers will kill and we can't freak out when it happens. My point is - there are a lot more killers then einsteins so what can we do besides reducing the total number.

GrannyGrump said...

L, the guys are losers. They don't stick around to support their kids. Many of them go father kids with other women and move in because as long as they're on welfare nobody can force them to pay child support. They hop from woman to woman always staying on her cash so as to avoid child support. I've had a man tell me flat out that he's not about to get a job because all the back child support the state would collect would eat him alive.

If the women were fussier, even if they were still having sex prematurely, they'd at least be doing it with men who could and would support the children they fathered.

L. said...

Sorry, GG, I'm not letting the moms off the hook here. If the guys are losers, the women are, too. LOSERS, not victims.

They don't have to be, but just like the guys, they make bad choices, and they and their kids live with the consequences.

I don't like to label anyone, since no one is beyond hope and everyone can turn his/her life around, but if you're going to insist on calling the guys losers, then I am going to call the single moms losers, too. Takes two to tango.

army_wife said...

Lilliput, the info I had just said that Dahmer had a "normal" upbringing. Did not have any of that other information.

I never said someone just out of the blue "decided" one day to be a serial killer. There are many factors at work there, some of which are uncontrollable, and some which are not. For people with mental problems that eventually lead them to that path - generally there are warning signs which were missed where the person could have been helped before they went on the rampage.

I would not just say, well, single women shouldn't have babies so let's abort them all! How about encouraging women not to shack up and become pregnant out of wedlock in the first place? And I believe a single mother can parent well, but she does need to be mindful of the fact that her children need some sort of good male role model in their lives. If it can't be Daddy, then what about Grandma, Uncle, or a friend whom you know very well? A boy needs to learn from a man how to be a man, and a girl needs to at least see a healthy example of how a man should treat a woman. Even if that means hanging out with a girl friend who has a Mom and Dad at home who are healthy, well-adjusted individuals with a good marriage relationship so that she can have fun with her friend and observe friend's Mom and Dad. These things are possible, if one is willing to try.

Of course we don't sit and accept the actions of violent people... but I don't think we should preemptively hand out the death penalty because someone has a higher chance of being evil.

We'd be better off trying to strengthen families, encourage folks not to get pregnant out of wedlock, and improve our ability to intervene earlyl if someone is showing signs of a mental problem.

army_wife said...

Whoops, I meant "grandpa" not "grandma".

Lilliput said...

Well at least we reached an agreement. We should intervene early in mental health issues.

army_wife said...

By "intervening early" I don't mean killing (aborting) someone so they don't "have a chance" to develop a mental problem to begin with. Not sure if that's what you mean by early intervention, but just wanted to specifically state my position on that.

Lilliput said...

I didn't mean that either but my child psychiatry lecturer did tell us that there are a number of factors involved in becoming mentally ill. If you have more than four of them you'd be pretty guaranteed to get something. They are: mental illness in parents, abuse, parents in trouble with the law,addiction and domestic violence. So to be honest - if a child is coming into a situation where all 4 factors occur - I would suggest an abortion. And yes I know that not all of them will become ill - but I think its safe to say that the majority will and they may be the next generation of killers. I don't think its fair to have a child grow up in those conditions and then be surprised and horrified when he turns criminal like those around him - and then we kill him or her with the death penalty. There is no point to that!

How do you feel about mentally ill mothers?

army_wife said...

It depends on how "mentally ill" you mean. Obviously a mother with severe mental illness that is not controllable is not suitable for motherhood, HOWEVER I do not believe that her children deserve to die because their mom is messed up. That's a situation for child protective services to handle.

If you're strict with the "mental illness" definition, then you might even consider ME a "mentally ill mother" (depression and ADD). Does that mean I'm not fit to be a mother, or that my children should have been killed rather than be forced to grow up under my care? Hardly! My own mother was more "messed up" than I am IMO, and I'd rather have grown up with her than be dead.

Mental illness does not automatically mean someone wouldn't be a good parent. It isn't one catch-all category but rather a curve. Some will be severely mentally disturbed and some will be fair to almost normal, and respond well to treatment. Most mentally ill people just need a little help, whether that is counseling, medication, or some other type of treatment.

I'd be very careful promoting the idea that abortion is the solution to "mentally ill parents". It savors strongly of eugenics. I don't believe that abortion is the solution to any problem. We'd be better off trying to solve the root problems rather than just killing off people as a band-aid fix, a very poor one at that. There has to be a way we can come together and help people with the "risk factors" you described without killing off their offspring.

To me, automatically aborting any children who would have been born under the perfect storm of circumstances you describe would be morally the same as saying that we have to ship off all HIV-positive people to a deserted island forever (or just flat-out kill them all instead) to eliminate the risk that they will continue to spread the virus to others. I understand the desire to protect society and prevent more bad things from happening but we just can't go about it that way. These are people's lives and I think they deserve compassion, not a utilitarian solution like "preventative murder/isolation". If we should have compassion for HIV-positive people, then how much more for unborn children or the mentally ill?

I understand that these are very complex problems and that there won't be a quick-fix/easy solution, but I think we as a society can think of something better than killing off people preemptively.