Sunday, February 07, 2010

Let them have their plates

ACLU could sue over license plate

Abortion advocates in Virginia want to counter the "Choose Life" plates with their own plates, to read either "Trust Women" or "Respect Choice".

I'm for free speech. Go for it.

Though those are a couple of lame slogans.

"Trust Women". Yeah. That'll really go over with people who trusted women and paid dearly for it. Just because you have two X chromosomes doesn't make you automatically trustworthy. Women can back-stab co-workers, key people's cars, cheat on their spouses, shoplift, and commit other acts that prove that the individuals in question, regardless of their plumbing, aren't trustworthy. If women were uniformly trustworthy, there'd be no women's prisons. No need for paternity tests. And NO ABORTION CLINICS. The very fact that abortion exists as a practice is proof that plenty of women simply can't be trusted.

"Respect Choice" is equally lame. WHAT choice do they want us to respect? We all know it's the choice to abort, but it's deliberately vague. Is "choice" in and of itself really so respectworthy? How about the choice to drive drunk? To vandalize a city park? To leave their cell phones on in movie theaters? To steal widows' pension checks? EVERY EVIL THING EVER DONE IS A CHOICE. Choice is, therefore, not an inherently good thing. It's WHAT gets chosen that determines how much respect a choice deserves. And if people never made choices that were unworthy of respect, people wouldn't choose to have sex in untenable situations. They'd not choose to be careless with contraception. They'd not choose to kill their offspring. If all people made choices that deserved respect, there would be NO ABORTION CLINICS. The very existence of abortion as a practice proves that people make stupid, irresponsible, and/or evil choices.

A movement that is in and of itself proof that some women can't be trusted and that lots of choices are bad choices is being ironic, to say the least, in picking "Trust Women" and "Respect Choice" as slogans.

But go ahead. Put your illogic on your car. It's a free country.

HT: Live Action


L. said...

"The very fact that abortion exists as a practice is proof that plenty of women simply can't be trusted."

That's right. I hope I am never "trusted" with another baby! ;)

GrannyGrump said...

I am 100% behind giving any woman who goes through an adequate informed consent process a tubal ligation. Ditto for men who want vasectomies.

I don't want doctors just doing walk-in sterilization, because of the possibility of rapid regret. (This is why doctors no longer do tubal ligations on the delivery table; immediately after giving birth a lot of women would do what I did -- tell the doctor stitching up the epesiotomy, "Sew it shut!" But if family practice doctors, infertility specialists, and OB/GYNs came up with a solid informed consent process, GO FOR IT!

But, as we've both discussed before, for some reason the "prevention" arm of the prochoice movement, for all their talk about women making their own reproductive choices, never seem to get behind the idea of making sterilization surgery more easily available, especially to women.

L. said...

I was offered a tubal after all three of my c-sections, actually -- I didn't take it. I prefer to use my contraception, which has no side effects and only a small chance of failure (multiple forms of contraception) than have surgery.

Some health insurance doesn't even cover tubals -- for a long time, mine didn't.

GrannyGrump said...

I'm not gonna argue with you if your method of contraception is working! I just get complaints from women who want tubal ligations and can't get doctors to do the because "you're too young" or "you haven't had enough children yet" or so forth.

A proper informed consent process, based on a multidisciplinary study on what makes patients likely to be pleased with or to regret the procedure, ought to be enough. I had to go through a lengthy informed consent process that led me to eventually reject oral surgery, but a friend went through with it, both of us very satisfied with our choices. A similar -- rigorous but not insurmountable -- process for sterilization makes sense.

OperationCounterstrike said...

I agree with GG. Sterilizations should not be done casually, nor on young patients. The benefits are too small and the regrets are too great.

Abortion is another matter. There the benefits--avoiding labor and delivery--are very great!

GrannyGrump said...

Oh, and the regrets on abortion are NOTHING?

Why do you have this inability to understand that many women actually love their babies? It's as if you have a hole in either your brain or your soul where the understanding of mother love is. Or you dismiss it as some disease.

A DEAD BABY is a much more agonizing thing to regret than loss of fertility.

GrannyGrump said...

Oh -- and I never said sterilizations ought not to be done on young patients. If a young patient has gone through a proper, rigorous informed consent process and still wants it, she shouldn't be denied it.

And again, why do you presume, on behalf of all women everywhere, that labor and delivery and live babies are a horror to be avoided at all costs?

You are very paternalistic and anti choice. You just disguise yourself as pro choice because you feel at home among the other abortion loving, child hating people who are within the abortion rights movement.

OperationCounterstrike said...

RE: "... why do you presume, on behalf of all women everywhere, that labor and delivery and live babies are a horror to be avoided at all costs?"

PAIN: Extreme, for many hours

RISK: one in four-to-five risk of major surgery, which often also necessitates the same surgery for all subsequent births; PLUS, other risks of needing more minor surgeries

COST: thousands of dollars

RE: "Why do you have this inability to understand that many women actually love their babies? "

Why do YOU have this inability to understand that many women prefer not to grow pregnancies they do not welcome, and to give birth to babies they don't want?

No one in USA forces women to have abortions they don't want. The women come and ASK for the abortions. Helloooooo?

GrannyGrump said...

I fully understand that some women hate babies. If there were no baby-hating women, there'd be no organizations like NARAL, would there?


No matter how loathsome you personally consider babies, no matter how many baby-hating women you hang out with, this is still the case. And I want to build a society that supports women who love their babies, not women who, like you, consider mother love a disease.

OperationCounterstrike said...

Christina, those women who want their babies, don't have to come in for abortions.


GrannyGrump said...

But abortions aren't only done on women who hate their babies and want them to die. We've covered this again and again. But like other abortion advocates, you hide behind the illusion of free choice. Again, this is why eventually you're going to lose. Because once the illusion is seen for what it is, your whole house of cards collapses. It's built on lies, distortions, and hypocrisy. It's built on sand. It can't stand forever.

OperationCounterstrike said...

GG, I can only repeat, those women who don't want abortions don't have to come in for them. If someone tries to force you to have an abortion, you can call the police, and the problem is solved. This IS choice, and it's not an illusion.

Well, try it yourself. Try to force someone to have an abortion, and watch what happens to you. You will be able to think about what happened while you are serving your time.

GrannyGrump said...

OC, women often go in for the "options counseling" -- given by counselors who, like you, assume that if she walked in the door it's your job to kill her baby. Never mind that she thought she'd get HELP.

Your ignorance and lack of compassion are staggering.

This is why I really think that the medical profession needs to be clearly and plainly divided into Hippocratic and Progressive. That way, women who really do hate their babies can go to Progressives like you, who are only too glad to dismantle the little creatures. Women who don't want their babies to die but are scared or confused and want help sorting it all out can go to Hippocratic practitioners who will give them the help they need.

Not all women are the dumb, selfish cunts you so seem to admire and live to serve.

OperationCounterstrike said...

You wrote: "... I really think that the medical profession needs to be clearly and plainly divided into Hippocratic and Progressive. That way, women who really do hate their babies can go to Progressives...."

I agree. If you WANT medicine without abortion, go for it! As long as the abortions are available to women who want them, I'm satisfied.

GrannyGrump said...

Very few women are having abortions because they want them. Look in the waiting room of an abortion facility. It is full of happy women who are fulfilling a childhood dream? NO!

Ashli McCall told the clinic staff that she didn't want an abortion but didn't know what else to do. They did NOT refer her to a doctor who would treat her HG. They did an abortion on a woman who was openly and repeatedly saying she didn't want to do it.

Angele didn't want an abortion. She wanted a solution to a problem I'm not at liberty to discuss. There WERE other options available. The facility did not refer her for those services. They just killed her baby.

Allegra Roseberry didn't want an abortion. She wanted treatment for her cancer. Her doctors LIED to her and told her that she couldn't get into the cancer treatment program if she was pregnant.

GrannyGrump said...

Suzanne didn't want an abortion. They drugged her up and did it anyway.

"Dolores" didn't want an abortion; Tiller lied to her, evidently at her boyfriend's request, to convince her that she had an ectopic pregnancy that he needed to treat immediately to save her life.

Marla didn't want an abortion. She was browbeaten into it by a hospital social worker who lied to her to get her consent.

GrannyGrump said...

"Shari" didn't want an abortion, but her doctor lied to her to trick her into consenting.

Laura almost had an abortion performed on her against her wishes by a doctor who lied to her and told her that her baby had died.

These women didn't want abortions, either.

GrannyGrump said...

More unwanted abortions performed by doctors who discovered that their patients were pregnant and didn't even bother to inform them; they just assumed that the patients would prefer abortions, and killed the babies.

Three more stories.

One of the biggest, boldest, most heinous lies that you and other abortion advocates tell is the one that abortions are only done on women who want them. What an unmitigated crock of shit! You convince women that as long as they don't want an abortion personally, it won't effect them. But it's a lie. And it's a lie that I'll never stop exposing.